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  1. #11
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tatame View Post
    Not possible. In '99 there were less than a dozen Americans that were black belts. The only thing that can be confirmed is that In '99 Howard was at linxx in VA beach and was a blue belt. No one can confirm past his purple.
    I know this is he-said-she-said, but the post I quote above, from 1999, on a different site (Google, no less), lists 1200 black belts in GJJ/BJJ. Howard Pickrell is on that list. Can you explain the disconnect?

  2. #12
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tatame View Post
    Exactly. They post jacare and Gracie lineage, then call themselves jujutsu yet make a post saying they're not Brazilian then say they're actually more aikijitsu.
    Where is the fraud?

    I get that you don't like them, but where is the fraud? Have you tracked down lineage to find it varacity or falsehood?

  3. #13

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    Click Here to Visit My Business
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are many of these Japanese JuJitsu folks
    that wear BJJ gear to take advantage
    of some confusion in the layperson marketplace
    to leverage the G/BJJ popularity.

    And there are many more Tae Kwon Do schools
    that managed to get BJJ teaching ranks
    through actual ranked people that
    ran distance learning networks with
    advertised belts by mail or Internet
    without any of the attempts
    at quality regarding curriculum, delivery platform,
    or rigor standards that the Torrance academy
    has attempted to develop.

    One of the several reasons that
    I frequently list "positives"
    for what the Torrance academy
    CTC's, and Gracie University are trying to provide,
    is because part of the reason for the
    Gracie University's existence is to provide the best quality
    alternative to some of the real belt mills that came before,
    that are still coming out now,
    that really are, or at least seem to be,
    just about the money,
    with little substance or real assessment.

    When you see one of those operations
    compared to Gracie University,
    you realize what a difference
    seven or eight figures of investment into
    a real platform with real attempts (not always perfect)
    at providing a best of breed hybrid learning system really make
    compared to some of the horrible, scandalous,
    no effort, no investment, what-were-they-thinking
    systems that came before, and sad to say are still out there.

    When there is not a Gracie University,
    that vacuum gets filled by true crap belt and certificate
    by mail providers who seem to make very little effort
    into anything resembling quality, or rigor, or...

    I have never found a good way to address this,
    other than to remind people with no lineage
    that they harm their students when they
    "promote" those students to G/BJJ belts
    with no real G/BJJ black belt authorizing that promotion,
    and to tell my own students to be careful about
    taking advice from the people who don't have real skills
    (regardless of what color belt they wear on their waist).

    Similarly, there are lot of people out there
    that think that being able to teach a class,
    and even being able to roll well,
    as the same as having the specific skills
    of being a competent corner coach.

    You can be a real G/BJJ black belt
    with little competition or referee experience
    and the brown belt who competed
    a hundred times in decent tournaments
    and referee'd a couple hundred times
    will usually be an utterly more competent
    corner coach than the higher ranked person
    without that real and specific competition related experience.

    Mr. Miyagi may teach a useful self-defense class,
    but is probably a poor choice for your competition coach,
    unless he brings on an assistant coach who specializes in competition,
    and has real experience competing and referee'ing competitions
    with comparable rulesets or styles to the one being competed in
    i.e. submission grappling for submission grappling,
    jacket takedowns for jacket take downs,
    wrestling for wrestling,
    tae kwon do for tae kwon do,
    boxing for boxing,
    MMA for MMA etc...
    There can be some cross over competition competencies,
    but they had best be cousin sports.
    Or the corner coach won't know what they don't know.
    And it is terrible when the corner coach learns OTJ
    at the expense of the competitor who put their trust in them.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 10/24/2016 4:22pm at .

  4. #14

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Where is the fraud?

    I get that you don't like them, but where is the fraud? Have you tracked down lineage to find it varacity or falsehood?
    Yes, no one in VA beach at any of the major schools there ever saw him past purple.
    The guys in VA beach that began asking the club directly were continuously given the run around rather than a direct answer about who gave anyone their belts. Every time they get pressured, they say we aren't bjj. When asked why they have gracies listed as their only lineage they redirect.

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    We aren't bjj

    Thanks for letting us teach bjj

    Once people in both cities discovered what they were doing, they started back tracking

  6. #16
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tatame View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    We aren't bjj

    Thanks for letting us teach bjj

    Once people in both cities discovered what they were doing, they started back tracking
    Look, the school may be crap. The instructors may be crap. I looked for about 5 minutes, and I found a student of the school showing in a no-gi tournament, and the founder of the school listed as a black belt 17 years ago. I do have questions about the level of competence I saw in some of their Facebook vids, but do you actually have a claim, here?

  7. #17
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tatame View Post
    Yes, no one in VA beach at any of the major schools there ever saw him past purple.
    The guys in VA beach that began asking the club directly were continuously given the run around rather than a direct answer about who gave anyone their belts. Every time they get pressured, they say we aren't bjj. When asked why they have gracies listed as their only lineage they redirect.
    Do you have proof of any of this?

    You do realize that it is entirely possible to learn a certain style or system and then go and do your own thing right? I'm a Pramek instructor. I can legitimately claim Kadochnikov lineage, but my style is not Kadochnikov system.

    What I'm waiting for from you is an actual fraud investigation, not just allegations. Prove that they are falsifying their lineage. Prove that they are lying to their students. That is what MABS is about.

  8. #18
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While we're on the subject of credibility, you really created this account in 2002, and your first and only posts are in this thread?

  9. #19

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.oocities.org/colosseum/lo...anceranks.html

    Bottom right. Blue belt section.
    2000

  10. #20
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tatame View Post
    http://www.oocities.org/colosseum/lo...anceranks.html

    Bottom right. Blue belt section.
    2000
    OK, that is interesting. But, the copyright at the bottom of the page says 1997. Nothing on the page that I see says 2000.

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