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  1. #11
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew WA View Post
    Except he wasn't letting the white belt tap him out...that is the problem. I am also a white belt and I know my instructor sometimes gives me good positions and allows me to work subs. But this was not the case. Anyway thanks for the help.
    Proof or it didn't happen.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew WA View Post
    Except he wasn't letting the white belt tap him out...that is the problem. I am also a white belt and I know my instructor sometimes gives me good positions and allows me to work subs. But this was not the case. Anyway thanks for the help.
    The logical question, here, is this: assuming that all belts in question are legit, and you are a white belt, how could you possibly know if your instructor was faking it or really getting his ass beat? Also, how do you know your standing in the spectrum of skills with relation to the white belt who tapped him?

  3. #13

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    Forgive me, am I understanding correctly that sambo adopts a belt system in states?

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by xjej View Post
    Forgive me, am I understanding correctly that sambo adopts a belt system in states?
    No exactly. Back in the early 90's SAMBO was being introduced to the world and they invited hundreds of coaches to come learn and adopt the system. As a way to make SAMBO more universally adoptable they created a belt system. Those coaches went back to their respective countries with those belt ranking systems. Without full support though the system quickly became corrupt, ambiguous, or simply in house systems. So yes, there are SAMBO black belts out there and they were originally proposed by the Russian SAMBO groups themselves.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    No exactly. Back in the early 90's SAMBO was being introduced to the world and they invited hundreds of coaches to come learn and adopt the system. As a way to make SAMBO more universally adoptable they created a belt system. Those coaches went back to their respective countries with those belt ranking systems. Without full support though the system quickly became corrupt, ambiguous, or simply in house systems. So yes, there are SAMBO black belts out there and they were originally proposed by the Russian SAMBO groups themselves.
    In the 1980's my wrestling coaches cross competed in Sambo.
    "Russian wrestlers who wear jackets and will break your legs".
    Although, I do not mean to contradict your real point.
    Just to point out to the room what you already know.
    Sambo has been around off and on,
    even in the United States for a while
    as a niche grappling sport.

  6. #16
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjej View Post
    Forgive me, am I understanding correctly that sambo adopts a belt system in states?
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    No exactly. Back in the early 90's SAMBO was being introduced to the world and they invited hundreds of coaches to come learn and adopt the system. As a way to make SAMBO more universally adoptable they created a belt system. Those coaches went back to their respective countries with those belt ranking systems. Without full support though the system quickly became corrupt, ambiguous, or simply in house systems. So yes, there are SAMBO black belts out there and they were originally proposed by the Russian SAMBO groups themselves.
    Pretty much what Omega said above. The tradtional Russian system separated teaching rank from ability rank(more or less) as you could be rated to instruct say the Russian national team, but your own competitive rank would be as a Sportsman 1st class(won some local comps but nothing worth writing home about). I think this was mostly a Soviet/Russian/Eastern Bloc thing, where coaches/instructors didn't have to be great athletes they just had to know how to make great athletes.

    Now Sambo in Russia was by no means a unified thing when the Soviet Union dissolved, rather there were various groups all vying for a slice of the capitalist pie. Some adopted belt systems as many Americans in the 90's didn't understand how a martial art could exist without a belt system. Likewise some didn't adopt belt but tried to keep the Russian system. It ended up being a veritable hodgepodge and Sambo in the US was pretty much done a disservice because of it.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    In the 1980's my wrestling coaches cross competed in Sambo.
    "Russian wrestlers who wear jackets and will break your legs".
    Although, I do not mean to contradict your real point.
    Just to point out to the room what you already know.
    Sambo has been around off and on,
    even in the United States for a while
    as a niche grappling sport.
    Thanks for that caveat.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Pretty much what Omega said above. The tradtional Russian system separated teaching rank from ability rank(more or less) as you could be rated to instruct say the Russian national team, but your own competitive rank would be as a Sportsman 1st class(won some local comps but nothing worth writing home about). I think this was mostly a Soviet/Russian/Eastern Bloc thing, where coaches/instructors didn't have to be great athletes they just had to know how to make great athletes.

    Now Sambo in Russia was by no means a unified thing when the Soviet Union dissolved, rather there were various groups all vying for a slice of the capitalist pie. Some adopted belt systems as many Americans in the 90's didn't understand how a martial art could exist without a belt system. Likewise some didn't adopt belt but tried to keep the Russian system. It ended up being a veritable hodgepodge and Sambo in the US was pretty much done a disservice because of it.
    Had the chance to share the mat in Russia with some high lvl judokas who were shifting between judo and sambo all the time.
    Never saw anything like belts in any camp but gotta also point out that my first contact with sambo was in 1996sh and I did not compete for another 4-5 years when my coach took it as a good chance to increase competition experience.
    "many Americans in the 90's didn't understand how a martial art could exist without a belt system" is something that I find interesting since wrestling there is so popular, being totally outside of that culture makes it hard to understand.
    Had the chance for some training in georgia and the belt (when it was used) was not really the matter on the mat but I guess chidaoba makes a strong tradition there.
    No other experience from easter europe, Poland/Hungary and others are very "western" in the judo approach.

  9. #19
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjej View Post
    Had the chance to share the mat in Russia with some high lvl judokas who were shifting between judo and sambo all the time.
    Never saw anything like belts in any camp but gotta also point out that my first contact with sambo was in 1996sh and I did not compete for another 4-5 years when my coach took it as a good chance to increase competition experience.
    "many Americans in the 90's didn't understand how a martial art could exist without a belt system" is something that I find interesting since wrestling there is so popular, being totally outside of that culture makes it hard to understand.
    Had the chance for some training in georgia and the belt (when it was used) was not really the matter on the mat but I guess chidaoba makes a strong tradition there.
    No other experience from easter europe, Poland/Hungary and others are very "western" in the judo approach.
    Most Americans back then didn't consider wresting or boxing to be martial arts, at least not in the vernacular. Just coming out of the ninja craze, Martial Arts were things like Kung Fu, Karate and such...

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Most Americans back then didn't consider wresting or boxing to be martial arts, at least not in the vernacular. Just coming out of the ninja craze, Martial Arts were things like Kung Fu, Karate and such...
    Fascinating, too far and at the time too young to understand such stuff.

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