Posted On:3/24/2005 1:36pm
Style: Knife-jitsu o=]==>
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
This is blatantly false. The knife may be sliding across your throat or between your ribs at the very second your strike hits his head. How many times in a sparring session have you "traded" with your partner?
One of the assumptions of Kali and other FMAs is that even a well placed strike may not have the intended effect so keep striking/slicing/stabbing until there's nothing left in front of you.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO LEARN GOOD KNIFE TECHNIQUE, SEEK A QUALIFIED FMA INSTRUCTOR AND DON'T RELY ON WEB COACHES
I've been taught a few options for empty hand vs. knife. I'm not saying that any of them are %100 effective in every situation but if I can't use my run-fu, these are some of the methods I train.
Pin the attacking arm (briefly) with your forearm by stepping 45 deg and smashing down. Remember that motion they told you was a low block for kicks? IMO, it was lost in translation. Follow up from there as necessary.
Step 45 deg to the outside and establish control of the attacking ELBOW. Even in earth/pakal/blade-down grip it's almost impossible for someone to stab you if you control the elbow of the knife hand. You can then take the back for some nasty follow-ups and take downs and/or RUN AWAY.
Kicking a blade will probably get you stabbed/sliced in the leg. See if you can stopwatch time your fastet kick. Then stopwatch time making a small circular motion with a knife (redondo). I'll take the redondo 99 times out of 100.
Most of the Kali kicks are low, fast kicks to the legs and feet.
I reiterate that no technique is %100 effective and that I am not an instructor. I would welcome additional comments and critique from the other Kalistas and those who are instructors.
You can also do baseball bat grip, and if the blade isn't pointed towards you, knee the knuckles of the knife hand....No promises, and basically the same thing as your last sentence for me lol.
I got an axe to grind
Posted On:3/30/2005 12:35am
Originally Posted by Mayhem
Phil Elmore carries a knife.
Why? Because he is paranoid of homeless and black people and can't fight.
Good news is that it's illegal where I live and they are giving police more powers to search people. This is a good thing.
Sounds like some serious therapy is in order. I suggest you visit the nearest
gay bathhouse and get a little tough love. Also don't worry about techniques,
just hit them with your purse.
For the rest... (I came in late on the thread.. at least in this incarnation of it).
Rules of thumb....
For dueling blade/weapon is forward....
for assasination (whether you are the assassin or the target) blade is back.
If I see you coming (I know it's a stretch.. but this is why it's called
"dueling") my weapon will be forward.
If I am attempting to murder someone (and I use this word to make it DAMN
CLEAR that this is an outright deadly force assault, NOT "self-defense")
my blade will be back. Aggressors who hide the
weapon should be presumed to be skilled, interested in a fatality, and
should be killed immediately. Preferably shot.
Similarly if I am facing a superior opponent OR a superior weapon (and by
this I mean length) my weapon will be back. I will keep my live hand forward
to feint and catch an eye if I can.
And talking about "weaponless defense against a knife" is bullshit.
ANYONE CAN CARRY A SCREWDRIVER! Even in the socialist place Mayhem
lives and breathes.
You don't need an edge to stab someone.. you don't even need much of
a point if you have some power. So carry a screwdriver.
If you can't carry a screwdriver into a place then it should be crawling with
security, or perhaps you should reconsider whether you need to be there.
The original post about working up to live blades...
My view (and unlike the above it's just opinion) that each training model
for a blade has value and teachs different things.
Marker drill is to prove what disarms and strips work (which is .. like.. NONE..
unless you are Gaje or someone... maybe...).
Aluminum trainer drill is for dueling practice. It builds skills.. but it's too much
like a knife, and not enough like one. You get used to drilling with edge discipline,
but it also doesn't have the "gut-clenching" aspect of live sharps.
Stick drill (with rattan) is crucial. Not because it's like a knife, but because it
hurts like hell. You learn to get out of the way bloody quick. and it generalizes
to most everything. Also you learn to evade **** that's longer and your chances
are better with a short sharp. It builds distance and timing in a way short
trainer dueling doesn't.
Live sharps are tricky work... like Ronin said.. for VERY advanced people.
I like to work with something like a machete (sharp, and big.. to scare you)
and do passes (carefully) to the gut during flow drills. This is scary stuff.
It's important to exagerate the mental condition of fear and outright panic
when you do stuff with trainers and sharps... hyperventilating and so forth.
Not the real thing.. but get as close as you safely can.
let's talk about why fat-fu shall we?
Posted On:12/29/2005 1:31am
Simple recommendations if you decide to not comply with the person holding the knife:
#1: Never grab the hand that feeds you the knife. When you get frustrated cause your arm has been seized you do what? Twist your hand around to free your arm? Where do you think the knife blade is going? If the person with the knife wants to hurt you it's probably going into your arm or you.
#2: Never kick at them higher than their waist. How much blood do you think goes through your legs? What will you possibly use for an escape if you get cut seriously(very likely)?
#3: Never grab them close to your body... Even if it's to throw them hard. Becoming swiss cheese is not an option most of us would like to choose.
#4: Use quick in/out motions for deflecting strikes. You don't want to maintain contact with them unless you know what you're doing. Even then, deflecting and striking is quicker.
#5: Use every vital strike you can fathom. Hit the throat, eyes, and ears. Ruin their senses so that you can have a better chance of running away.
Those are just my thoughts on some basic protection against a knife. All and all though you will want to comply with the person's demands instead of possibly having trouble breathing.
Posted On:12/30/2005 4:07am
All of the stuff in the last 4 posts has been addressed in the thread already. I'm not going to rewrite everything. Your moms and my Kung Fu is better than yours.
Posted On:1/02/2006 6:19pm
Style: Retard Poster Jitsu (BJJ)
I've had a few 'lucky' encounters with edged objects in the past ,but skimming this thread I came to the conclusion that I know '**** all' about knife defence.
Now short of walking around in stabproofs what art should I be looking at?
Kali, Sayoc, Escrima these are names I've heard related to edged weapons but don't really know much about the arts themselves. I don't normally think about knife stuff (**** happens) but one of of the people I work with just got held up at knife point so it got me thinking.
Is there an effective style against an edged weapon?
I've sparred with people with varying levels of skill & with varying levels of contact under different rulesets. The only thing that stays as a constant is that both parties get 'contact' be that a strike/clinch/throw etc. If one of us had an edged weapon the other party even if more skilled would have been fucked.
I realise there is no universal 'answer' but can anyone reccomend a good style & instructor in the the SE of the UK that deals with edged weapon attacks.
Posted On:1/02/2006 7:05pm
Kali/Eskrima/Arnis: This is the name for a Filipino martial art (FMA) that teach hand to hand, knife, and stick work. All names point to the same thing just are from different era's and advertising points of view.
Sayoc: Is a specific style set within the Kali/Eskrima/Arnis family. Mostly specializing in Knife work and some believe overcomplicating it to an extent. But overall knife work they teach is really good but you can find cheaper in other Kali/Eskrima/Arnis studios.
Knife defense is something you learn and have to respect. You will also have to come to grips to the fact that almost no matter how good you are you will most likely get cut.
I don't specifically have a recommendation in the UK area that you list but you can go to www.FMADATABASE.com to search. That'll list a ton of places around the world that teach specifically FMA. Good luck and have fun.
Posted On:1/03/2006 12:26pm
i seen few knife fight in my life and i think that the best defence agains it, is using thing around you. i seen one defence using chair(note here both of the guy involved are not praticing any martial art).
The victim hit the attacker knife hand like a mad man (using chair) until he had a opening. Then he charge the guy using the chair until he fall to the ground then he jumped into the guy head and stomped it with full force before running away. the attacker were having a broken nose and to weak to chase him.
Last edited by greatgan; 1/03/2006 12:34pm at .
Posted On:1/04/2006 6:37am
Thanks for the link unfortunately it's not been updated since May 05.
Posted On:1/04/2006 12:18pm
Yeah I am not sure what is going on with that site right now but I can try and see if the people I know can find a FMA place for you. What city are you around?
Posted On:1/04/2006 1:58pm
Just as a reminder this not good knife defense:
Knife Defense by Jim Carrey
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