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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Mr. Shin

    The USJF High Dan directory has listed Mr. Shin as 6th Dan for ever. To advance past 6th Dan the application has to go to the USJF executive board for approval; which I assume means you have to be "in" with the board, which he wasn't. His 7th-9th Dan ranks were awarded to him by the Korean Judo Association (KJA), and I do believe that he was the youngest 9th Dan awarded by the KJA. The KJA is a member of the IJF, which has the same rules for advancement past 6th Dan, but they don't have a high Dan directory that I can find, so I don't know if they have recognized the 7th-9th promotions.

    Hope that helps.

  2. #12

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    The USJF high Dan Directory has listed Mr. Shin as a 6th Dan for a long time. To advance past 6th Dan requires approval by the executive council. Mr. Shin’s 7th-9th Dan promotions were given by the Korean Judo Association (KJA). The KJA is a member of the IJF which has the same requirements as the USLF for high Dan promotions. The IFJ does not have a high Dan directory that I can find, so I don’t know if the IJF recognizes the promotions or not.

    Hope that helps.

  3. #13

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mr. Shin's 9th Dan was awarded to him by the Korean Judo Association (KJA), which is a member of the IJF.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatPanda View Post
    Mr. Shin's 9th Dan was awarded to him by the Korean Judo Association (KJA), which is a member of the IJF.
    Prove it

  5. #15

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    I studied with Grandmaster Shin in the 1980's in St Louis

    I was just trying to find information about him online and came across this page. I can tell you, he's legit; he used to go to Korea in the summers to help select and train their Olympic Judo team and was Augustus Bush IV's personal bodyguard for years. I remember him being awarded 8th dan in Judo, probably in 1986. However, unless you read Korean, I doubt you're going to find much about his being awarded 9th dan. He was active in the US TKD and Judo communities in the 80's and highly respected. He helped organize the TKD jr nationals in the mid-to-late 80's. From what I remember, he was the highest ranking black belt in Judo in the US at the time.

    There's a mention of GGM Shin here that provides some context for anyone interested:

    coloradotaekwondo(dot)com/fellows

    (site isn't allowing me to post links so I've textified it)

    At any rate, he was highly respected in both the US TKD and Judo communities at the time and I can't imagine him lying about receiving 9th dan. If it weren't true, he would have been called out as a fraud, given his standing in the community at the time, and he would have no reason to do so.

    In recent years I've heard that he had some severe medical problems that likely resulted in him keeping a much lower profile. It's sad to see that his public reputation seems to have faded but he always kept a pretty low public profile.

    Here's another of his students: guidrytraining(dot)com/content/shin.htm

  6. #16
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cake of Doom View Post
    From Here

    Can't register with the site to check who these Judo experts were. One of you lot in the states might have more luck viewing the article.
    The text from the ninth dan article is badly OCRd on this page:
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/140930894/

    From what I can tell, it doesn't list who awarded him. Note that the article is from April, 2000.


    Red belt photo, here, from 2011:
    https://www.facebook.com/pg/moosulkw...10391555710485
    Including posts from people that claim to have trained under him in the 70's and 80's.

    Facebook page for Master Shin's school is here:
    https://www.facebook.com/MooDoKwanDojo/

    There's several decent pictures of him wearing a solid red belt. That page last updated 2013.


    His wife passed away later in 2013, which probably explains the lack of updates.
    http://obits.dignitymemorial.com/dig...77&mid=5650014

  7. #17
    Law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leicamark View Post
    I was just trying to find information about him online and came across this page. I can tell you, he's legit; he used to go to Korea in the summers to help select and train their Olympic Judo team and was Augustus Bush IV's personal bodyguard for years. I remember him being awarded 8th dan in Judo, probably in 1986. However, unless you read Korean, I doubt you're going to find much about his being awarded 9th dan. He was active in the US TKD and Judo communities in the 80's and highly respected. He helped organize the TKD jr nationals in the mid-to-late 80's. From what I remember, he was the highest ranking black belt in Judo in the US at the time.

    There's a mention of GGM Shin here that provides some context for anyone interested:

    coloradotaekwondo(dot)com/fellows

    (site isn't allowing me to post links so I've textified it)

    At any rate, he was highly respected in both the US TKD and Judo communities at the time and I can't imagine him lying about receiving 9th dan. If it weren't true, he would have been called out as a fraud, given his standing in the community at the time, and he would have no reason to do so.

    In recent years I've heard that he had some severe medical problems that likely resulted in him keeping a much lower profile. It's sad to see that his public reputation seems to have faded but he always kept a pretty low public profile.

    Here's another of his students: guidrytraining(dot)com/content/shin.htm
    8th Dan in his early 40's? Doesn't seem plausible.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatPanda View Post
    Mr. Shin's 9th Dan was awarded to him by the Korean Judo Association (KJA), which is a member of the IJF.
    Ok, just for your interest:
    Quote Originally Posted by IJF
    - Up to the 6th dan, the grades are within the competence of the Member National Federations. If they wish
    them to be formalized by the IJF, they must send a request to their Continental Unions.
    - The 7th dan can be validated only by the Continental Unions.
    - The 8th dan and higher must, after opinion of the continental Directors, be sent to the IJF Grade and “dan”
    rank Commission Director who will examine files and will propose the appointments.
    The 10th dan grade can be
    awarded only unanimously by the IJF Executive Committee.
    - The holding of the Grade and “dan” rank register is carried out by the Commission, which sends to the IJF
    General Secretary an updated file after every modification.
    - Diplomas and possible “dan” cards are sent under the responsibility of the Manager of the IJF Grade and
    “dan” rank Commission by the Continental Grade Director for the 7th and inferior dan. For higher grades the IJF
    is in charge of sending the documents.
    The document (google "dan rank IJF" for the PDF on their official site, cannot post links yet) is pretty explicit about how a national association is not allowed to promote past 6th Dan. Even more important, 8th and 9th Dan have to be checked and promoted by the IJF Dan Rank Commission itself, there is nothing even the continental union is allowed to do on its own here.

    On this basis, I call bullshit on "was awarded to him by the Korean Judo Association (KJA)". They may award whatever they want, but this belt is not acknowledged internationally without being checked by both the continental Executive Committee and the IJF Grading Panel:

    Quote Originally Posted by IJF
    The awarding of IJF grades and “dan” ranks shall be performed according to the procedure validated by the EC.
    From the 1st to the 6th dan, ranks shall be awarded under the responsibility of Member National Federations.
    The 7th dan shall be awarded upon the proposal of Member National Federations by the Executive Committees
    of the Continental Unions, after the opinion of the Continental Grade and “dan” rank Director is given.
    As of the 8th dan, Ranks shall be awarded by the EC upon the proposal of Member National Federations and
    after the opinion of the Continental Unions has been given, as well as the opinion of the Grade and “dan” rank
    Commission of the IJF.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law View Post
    8th Dan in his early 40's? Doesn't seem plausible.
    In above mentioned document it is clearly specified that for 8th Dan - even if you are Category A (1-3 in Olympic Games or Senior World Championships, IJF Referee, IJF Continental Official or having trained a category A athlete as national coach) - you have to be at the very least 50 years old. For 9th Dan it is 60 years. But that's just official IJF regulations, so obviously not applicable to a martial arts god.

  10. #20

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Last but not least: Why does an American MA school certify through the Korea Judo Association? (see http://maccjudotkd.com/about_us)

    Oh well, maybe because it is the Korea Judo Association in USA!, which has a bunch of high-dan ranked people (including 10th Dan) that does not appear on either Kodokan or IJF sources.

    The page hasn't been updated in a while (2012) and the names of the current committee mentioned on the IJF website do not seem to have anything to do with our Korean-American friends (https://www.ijf.org/country/kor/committee). A proper KJA website is not available, only the postal address and an email: [email protected]

    On the other hand, there seem to have been some (back-then) legit officials involved, though. Overall, I'd judge it as "not IJF-approved and therefore not worth a ****"/back-rubbing in a typical Korean fashion, i.e. throwing grades all around (most of them have high Taekwondo-Grades as well).

    Well, Koreans may do whatever they want in TKD, but regarding Judo, it is not how it works. These ranks are not legit in any common sense and within Judo standards.

    Apparently, the youngest 9th Dan is another Korean residing in the USA, having been promoted in 2000 at the age of 65: Kyu Ha Kim (see e.g. http://media.usja.net/growing-judo/G...do-2014.05.pdf). Problem being: This source basically cites his own website. I haven't been able to verify this by any independent source that it is acknowledged by the IJF.

    Aside: The US Kodokan Committee (affiliated with the USJA) lists 42 as a minimum age for hachidan: https://uskodokancommittee.com/rank-requirements/ - strange times when lower level governing bodies straightout contradict the rules of what they are member of.

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