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  1. #21
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Inside that 4.5 hours there is plenty of time for all the physical activity you mentioned. The other things can get put into the rest days. You can't even go hard for 4 hours a day every day. Your body will break down quite fast.
    You can shut down a muscle group in under 30 mins of lifting or do an awe some circuit...... But instead people meander around the gym for an hour and a half.
    Also so they are fucking off when they should be drilling. If you drill a hundred armabrs. A 100 triangles ,a hundred armbars, a hundred chokes. That should take you about 15 mins. That's doing every at over 2 seconds a rep with extra time to switch.
    I agree most people don't train the way people need to train to be great but I disagree that you have to quit your job to do it.

    In my opinion if someone is actually training 8 hours a day they are on better drugs than Sonnen was and have better genetics or they waste a bunch of time and call it "training time".
    Just as a point of data, typical judo training at a Japanese college team (or high school in some cases) would be 2x a day, 5-6 days per week, at least 2-3 hours per session. That's Judo training, not weights, etc. No doubt there is conditioning going on...

    So that's 4-6 hours a day of judo.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  2. #22
    Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc. supporting member
    Ke?poFist's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great write-up, will definitely share
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  3. #23
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Just as a point of data, typical judo training at a Japanese college team (or high school in some cases) would be 2x a day, 5-6 days per week, at least 2-3 hours per session. That's Judo training, not weights, etc. No doubt there is conditioning going on...

    So that's 4-6 hours a day of judo.
    That sounds about right. I think it can be done on the low side of things if you train with good time management. I also think that in grappling you can combine technique and weight lifting if you have good partners like a judo squad like that would.

    Pick up people instead of weights, and all the other awesome partner drills,etc.

  4. #24
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    plasma's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Inside that 4.5 hours there is plenty of time for all the physical activity you mentioned. The other things can get put into the rest days. You can't even go hard for 4 hours a day every day. Your body will break down quite fast.
    You can shut down a muscle group in under 30 mins of lifting or do an awe some circuit...... But instead people meander around the gym for an hour and a half.
    Also so they are fucking off when they should be drilling. If you drill a hundred armabrs. A 100 triangles ,a hundred armbars, a hundred chokes. That should take you about 15 mins. That's doing every at over 2 seconds a rep with extra time to switch.
    I agree most people don't train the way people need to train to be great but I disagree that you have to quit your job to do it.

    In my opinion if someone is actually training 8 hours a day they are on better drugs than Sonnen was and have better genetics or they waste a bunch of time and call it "training time".
    It depends on what you'd consider "drilling." While, there is the rapid succession drilling like you mentioned. There is also the style of drilling where you flow through a position and get feedback from your partner. It more a strategy session than anything else. I've noticed the high level practitioners do this a lot and I tend to mimic it in my drilling sessions. It helps me think through my transitions and an hour can go by very quickly without much physical effort.

  5. #25
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by <plasma> View Post
    It depends on what you'd consider "drilling." While, there is the rapid succession drilling like you mentioned. There is also the style of drilling where you flow through a position and get feedback from your partner. It more a strategy session than anything else. I've noticed the high level practitioners do this a lot and I tend to mimic it in my drilling sessions. It helps me think through my transitions and an hour can go by very quickly without much physical effort.
    I do that with when I roll with lesser guys. There's value in everything and i am not saying having 8 hours a day wouldn't be nice. I am saying you can world class and have a job. If you are committed to good training, and have good genes you can be great.
    Gsp says he gets waxed on the mat by lawyers at Renzo's .

  6. #26

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=Raycetpfl;]"The fact is the people that are good and can fight at the level you want train full time, 8 hours a day, technique, strength and conditioning"

    Without steroids that's not possible. Otherwise youre counting just being "in" the gym as training.
    4.5 hours a day 4-5 days a week is about the maximum unless you're just an absolute physical anomaly and you would still probably end up with mental fatigue after not long. /QUOTE]

    For a lot of other people that just sits at national average level 10-12 sessions per week set on average 5-8 of judo plus 3 of weightlifting and 2-3 of running is quite normal yet no roids as far as I recall ( unless mom's cake is accountable as doping ).
    Happened to have periods with triple daily sessions, quite dense but still survivable.
    8 hours sounds a little too much on normal daily schedule yet intensity and focusing trained people manages to keep is hard to be figured for those who dont play at that level. (in some training camp can happen to see 3 hours of sparring but there you have the 5' - 5' split between two groups so it'ds indeed 3 hours on the mat but 50% of effective sparring and 50% of resting and keeping focus).
    As for weightlifting single session can be incredibly variable, from 30-40' up to over two hours, still It's a lot about what the trainin session consists in.

  7. #27

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Clearly Plasma has been reading the FB posts of Steve Morris. He believes in 'fighting' as the absolute key - and then some.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    From one old, weak, sucky guy to another, STAY THE **** OUT OF BARS.

    Problem solved...
    So, two things:

    1) I was being rhetorical. I'm not planning on getting into any bar fights; rather, I was merely asking if my martial arts (Judo) training would help me were I to get into one. Basically, I go to Judo (and BJJ) because I want to be able to defend myself in case of an attack. I am 48 years old, and for pretty much all my life I've felt extremely vulnerable because I never knew how to fight and was always scared shitless of getting attacked and/or humiliated by some nasty fuckhead somewhere, somehow. The mere idea of having to fight someone just absolutely terrified me.

    But now, after four years of Judo and one year of BJJ I don't quite feel that way. I'm don't feel like some big-shot tough guy who can kick anyone's ass or anything-- not even close; I don't think of myself as a good fighter at all. But I do, however, feel less scared. I feel calmer now- exponentially calmer and less terrified. And although I'm still 100% a *****, I'm a much less frantic one, a much less "lost" one. If something happened now- if some guy in a bar (or restaurant, or subway car, or on the sidewalk) started **** with me and it was on- I'd still piss my pants, but at least I'd do so while trying to get grips for Tai Otoshi. So yeah I may be (sorry: am) a shitty martial artist, but at least I'm not mentally a complete basket case when it comes to fighting. A few years of training have given me a smidgen of peace of mind at least.

    2) Ben, you don't suck. I suck. You are not in the same hemisphere as a guy like me. Yeah, sure- Travis Stevens would throw you through the floor. Fine. But if regular Joe Toughguy came at you in anger and you truly had to respond, in all likelihood you'd break his spine. Seriously- you would do some fucking damage to pretty much anyone who seriously came at you with the intent to do harm. Me- I would almost certainly get my ass kicked by any guy that knew how to fight; only difference is that said asshole would possibly have a harder time of it now than against 2009-me. That's all. I am not a competent Judoka, nor am I a competent fighter. What I am is a person who is marginally better than I was. Period.

    You and I are not evenclose to the same; compared to me, you're Zeus.

  9. #29
    Colin's Avatar
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    QFT, Plasma.

    I'm one of those guys who found himself getting into fights all the time when I was younger, and to my young mind, it always seemed like an inescapable situation.

    .. That is of course until I matured somewhat and found myself miraculously able to avoid every fight ever. I'm not saying that every fight is avoidable, but anecdotally, it certainly seems that they are pretty easy to avoid when you have a better appreciation for many of the subtler aspects of social identity.

    Do like me; avoid fights.
    (BTW I play gigs in pubs full of drunk louts all the time, you don't have to avoid pubs to avoid fights, but I'll certainly concede that it can only further reduce the possibility of getting into a brawl).

  10. #30
    1point2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    in grappling you can combine technique and weight lifting if you have good partners like a judo squad like that would.

    Pick up people instead of weights, and all the other awesome partner drills,etc.
    We've been fighting this fight since the mid-twentieth century, with the publication of Ishikawa & Draeger's "Judo Training Methods". Look: there are so many useful and beneficial elements that come from strength and conditioning outside of class, with weights. It is simply parochial and backwards to think that a grappler should eschew the best training methods known to man in favor of cobbling together tools from what they find available at the dojo.

    There are all sorts of benefits of lifting a human being, and they excite me greatly. But judoka already get that in practice. The benefits of a predictable, stable, non-human resistance tool like a barbell, or kettlebell, or cable machine are many and varied. A professional combat athlete is either a stand-out genetic freak in a pool of genetic freaks (e.g. Herschel Walker) or should be developing their strength, power, and resistance to injury in the weight room with the tools that have proved themselves superior.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates

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