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    PDA's Avatar
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    The God Singularity

    I have been reading and watching allot (by my standards) on Astrophysics .

    Now in simple terms if I understand correctly previously guys including Stephen Hawkings had developed equations for everything leading back to the big bang (creation of the universe) and beyond that they referred to a singularity where the laws of physics as we know them did not exist leaving it for others to speculate what that might be whilst they are still working it out themselves. (multiple universe/aliens/God ect...)

    Since then they have altered this a little and now theorise that the universe simply always was so it no longer needs a starting point.

    They also theorise that conciousness is a state of matter.

    So I was wondering that perhaps it is matter that is a state of conciousness or that conciousness creates matter as we know it and that one day they will discover the link between conciousness and matter.

    So there ya go pick that apart as you will.
    King without a crown

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    Permalost's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PDA View Post
    Since then they have altered this a little and now theorise that the universe simply always was so it no longer needs a starting point.
    Can you elaborate on what modern theories are superceding older theories here?

    Do you think consciousness is necessary for a universe that always was?

    They also theorize that consciousness is a state of matter.
    Who? To discuss this, we'll also need a working definition of consciousness. That's where a lot of this stuff is problematic. I read as much Terrence Mckenna as the next weirdo, but I still tend to believe that consciousness is localized in nervous systems and similar complex structures, not as a ubiquitous invisible force throughout the universe. You might argue that if consciousness were localized, there would have to be a conscious force to guide the creation of such a complex being, but that's just a new age version of the clockmaker god problem.

    The kind of people that write whole books about how consciousness is everywhere, man, if you open your third eye, never seem to have any good experimental designs to test the ubiquity of consciousness. If its something that exists but can't be seen or measured, then we're kinda dealing with Sagan's invisible dragon with this consciousness thing.


    So I was wondering that perhaps it is matter that is a state of conciousness or that conciousness creates matter as we know it and that one day they will discover the link between conciousness and matter.

    So there ya go pick that apart as you will.
    First, do we have any evidence that consciousness creates matter? You might point out that the human brain can cause all sorts of physiological reactions based on the pilot's thoughts, but is there evidence that consciousness can affect matter outside the physical body of an organism?

    It sounds like what you're suggesting in your first paragraph is that consciousness existed before the Big Bang, and brought it into being. Before the expansion of the singularity, not only is there no space; there is no time. Are you saying that consciousness is independent of both? One might assume that consciousness is somewhat like a computer processing. What data would a consciousness be processing before anything has happened? And how would it process this data without a progression of time, one idea leading to the next?

    Let's assume that what you're proposing is correct, and someday we find a link between consciousness and matter. What would we do with this information?

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is an interesting read that will confuse you even more
    http://www.sciencealert.com/reality-...iment-confirms
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

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