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  1. #11
    ChenPengFi's Avatar
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    Fact: Homicides were falling before the Australian firearm ban, matching a global downward trend in most industrialized countries. However, non-firearm homicides are relatively stable in Australia.

    Fact: Crime has been rising since enacting a sweeping ban on private gun ownership. In the first two years after Australian gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms, government statistics showed a dramatic increase in criminal activity. 32 In 2001-2002, homicides were up another 20%. 33

    From the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are:
    •Firearm-related murders were up 19%
    •Armed robberies were up 69%
    •Home invasions were up 21%

    The sad part is that in the 15 years before the national gun confiscation:
    •Firearm-related homicides dropped nearly 66%
    •Firearm-related deaths fell 50%

    Fact: Gun crimes have been rising throughout Australia since guns were banned. In Sydney alone, robbery rates with guns rose 160% in 2001, more in the previous year. 34

    Fact: A ten year Australian study has concluded that firearm confiscation had no effect on crime rates. 35 A separate report also concluded that Australia’s 1996 gun control laws “found [no] evidence for an impact of the laws on the pre-existing decline in firearm homicides” 36 and yet another report from Australia for a similar time period indicates the same lack of decline in firearm homicides. 37

    Fact: Despite having much stricter gun control than New Zealand (including a near ban on handguns) firearm homicides in both countries track one another over 25 years, indicating that gun control is not a control variable. 38
    Much more here:
    http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control...her-countries/

  2. #12

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    I have trouble advocating taking weapons because of responsibility. If I disarm someone I feel a responsibility to protect them. If I leave them alone i have not assumed this responsibility. This is not an original thought on my part but it does capture my thinking. So question, does arms control create a duty to protect those you disarm?

  3. #13
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
    Devil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    However, if Weapons Manufacturer A produces Pistol "P-AYZJUYZ234S" which is bought from Gun Store B by Person C, who then reports it stolen and ends up in Robbery D. The suspect is caught by the Police, they would have a better idea how this criminal was linked to the Person C's stolen pistol. What is wrong with that?
    Please explain how that is different than what we already have. You do realize every firearm manufactured in the United States has a serial number, right? That's a federal requirement. What you described is exactly what happens already.

    Please see ATF Form 4473.
    Last edited by Devil; 4/18/2015 12:18am at .

  4. #14
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Guns per Capita
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_...ita_by_country

    Murder Rate per capita
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

    No correlation

    While correlation doesn't = causality
    Its hard to have Causality without correlation

    I am not seeing a compelling reason that the people of the United States should not be able to own guns.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  5. #15
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    plasma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Please explain how that is different than what we already have. You do realize every firearm manufactured in the United States has a serial number, right? That's a federal requirement. What you described is exactly what happens already.

    Please see ATF Form 4473.
    I was under the impression the ATF could not require gun shops to provide inventory accounting and many states still allow cash only no waiting period sales.

  6. #16
    Bneterasedmynam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    I was under the impression the ATF could not require gun shops to provide inventory accounting and many states still allow cash only no waiting period sales.
    I think it's only certain gun sales from one non-dealer seller to another that allows that.

    As far as inventory doesn't the law require that gun stores keep all sales records for 10 years??

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    Either America is still based on the idea that each of us are free and that the concept of the government "trusting us with...." is outrageous. Or we turn into what many of our ancestors fled Europe for in the first place.
    Sadly plenty of people can't be trusted with guns (I think an IQ test would be a better requirement for gun ownership) and the freedom your ancestors sought seemed to only extend to themselves and not to people the people who already lived there and certainly not to those that arrived with different coloured skin.

  8. #18

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    A difficult topic since opinions range from wanting unrestricted access to all types of guns to regulation of firearms (either by restricting the person and/or restricting the type) to outright ban.

    What are the stats for successful self-defence using a gun? What are the stats for accidentally shooting yourself or someone else? What are the stats for having your gun stolen? What are the stats for being shot by someone else using your own gun? Are these available? I am imagine both sides of the argument can produce their own.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dork Angel View Post
    Sadly plenty of people can't be trusted with guns (I think an IQ test would be a better requirement for gun ownership) and the freedom your ancestors sought seemed to only extend to themselves and not to people the people who already lived there and certainly not to those that arrived with different coloured skin.
    It seems you have inadvertently sided with the slaveholders and their enablers. The people abducted from Africa and their descendants should not have had their rights stolen by anyone. Period.

    Going forward you want to set up a test for who gets their rights and who does not. And you point to past hypocrisy to justify it.

  10. #20
    Cassius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dork Angel View Post
    A difficult topic since opinions range from wanting unrestricted access to all types of guns to regulation of firearms (either by restricting the person and/or restricting the type) to outright ban.

    What are the stats for successful self-defence using a gun? What are the stats for accidentally shooting yourself or someone else? What are the stats for having your gun stolen? What are the stats for being shot by someone else using your own gun? Are these available? I am imagine both sides of the argument can produce their own.
    There are not good statistics for any of these, as they would depend on the incident being reported. It is especially difficult to ascertain the annual number of successful defensive gun uses in the United States, since the vast majority of them are believed (by the pro 2nd amendment crowd) to go unreported, as no shots are fired. The pro gun control argument ranges from only counting defensive gun use if shots are fired, to outright stating that no number of successful gun uses justifies the public safety hazard caused by firearms.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

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