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  1. #21

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lordplumboy View Post
    he didnt take away the rank, he "disavowed" it. meaning, as far as he is concerned, she accepted a demotion from her new club and instructor and moved on to the new club in less than respectful way, ie. dishonesty and ****-talking former club. if you take in the whole story(or as much as is presented) you will discover that she was also an employee of the original club so there.'s doubly disrespectful practices going on. the original club owner( K O) didnt post her name on facebook, her new instructor did, who by the by is her boyfriend.
    and just so some of you newbies and "pick and choose the parts I like" martial artist know, rank demotion is a longstanding act though not often practiced but fully supported by those of us who have been in the game for more than 5 min. This club owner is basically saying he has lines that he draws and they were crossed. if a student/teacher relationship is merely a business transaction, then good luck to the future of martial arts. i guess thats what we're seeing these days. an instructor accepts students and rejects students. end of story. if a student decides to move on and does it disrespectfully, then the instructor has the right to say "dont let the door hit you on the way out"
    How about "bullied" and "excommunicated"? It's ironic you'd tell everybody to "take in the whole story" before "choose the parts" they like, when you didn't bother pointing out any of Island Top Team's rebuttal.

    Everybody should take note of the difference between your biased response and the balanced one below, and then try to guess what happened..

    https://www.facebook.com/IslandTopTe...843202983606:0

    Island Top Team
    February 26, 2015

    For those not aware, there is a great deal of politics in the BJJ world. The chief export of politics is manufactured outrage. Recently, a student whose original club was Fierce studio in Victoria, began training with us when in Nanaimo. This student immediately noticed a difference in the standards of our club, and, as others have done in the past, wanted to see where she measured up in our rank structure. She asked our head instructor to rank her, and she has quickly earned 2 stripes with her newly acquired skills. We posted a picture of her promotion, and on the day we did so, she was not even a student under contract with her original club. When the coach at this club discovered this, he excommunicated her from the club and blocked her from all of the club's social media groups, restricting her ability to tell her side of the story, and the head of their association "disavowed" her belt. That is not a joke, he actually used the term "disavowed" and asked her to return her belt. They both posted hypocritical and nasty statements about her on social media without ever bothering to hear what she had to say.

    Words like honor, integrity, loyalty, then subterfuge, were thrown around. Let's be real and unmask these code words. Here are some words that fit better: insecurity, guilt, bullying, and cult. When you join a martial arts club, you are paying for a service, you are not joining the military, you are free to avail yourself of whatever service you choose. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is a charlatan.


    And more importantly, anyone who uses isolation, guilt, ostracism, or other methods of enforced loyalty, should be viewed with extreme suspicion, as should anyone who seeks authority over you. The Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu world used to self-regulate a high standard of teaching, but since the dojo storm became a thing of the past, people who are poorly qualified to teach have wormed their way into our community, and they secure their positions by using cult-like tactics to prevent their students from discovering that they are having the wool pulled over their eyes.

    At ITT, we encourage our students to train everywhere, including clubs whose students are discouraged from training with us.
    You will often hear Professor Rob tell his students that they should take nothing for granted, that unless they train somewhere else, they cannot make a truly informed decision on the quality of the club, and that no one should take his word as gospel. We believe in being open, in sharing jiu-jitsu, and in shining a light on the darker corners of the martial arts experience. As Canadians sometimes we are polite to a fault, which can allow hypocrisy to flourish. Some things need to be said. If you agree, please like and share this post. And if you want to hear the story from its source rather than the rumor mill, please contact Lora Carolsfeld directly.

    P.S. none of this is intended as an indictment of any students at Fierce, who we think are great people, we seek no rivalry with them, our doors are always open to everyone to visit, train, and form their own judgments about Island Top Team.
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 9/02/2017 6:27pm at .

  2. #22

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    Maybe she fell in love with the other school's instructor.

    Who cares, anyway.
    jilted lovers always care, even though they say they don't.

  3. #23

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rank, once awarded by an instructor of the correct rank to make that promotion, cannot be taken away, at least not in Judo and Brazilian/Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
    BJJ and Judo instructors who say they have the power to take a rank back from someone they have promoted once awarded, identify themselves as willing to operate in a very shady territory.

  4. #24

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Rank, once awarded by an instructor of the correct rank to make that promotion, cannot be taken away, at least not in Judo and Brazilian/Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
    BJJ and Judo instructors who say they have the power to take a rank back from someone they have promoted once awarded, identify themselves as willing to operate in a very shady territory.
    Yeah and it's important to keep pointing out they did a LOT more than try to take away the rank of the blue belt (at least according to Island Top Team).

    If all the original school did was decide to not recognize her blue belt, nobody would have heard of this. It blew up because of the social discord that grew between the two schools, but all in all it just makes the original school look bad and cultish, and the new school look open and honest, EVEN if these aren't completely accurate assessments..

    It really does hit all the flags for cult bullshidoka behavior: the power play, the social ostracization, and the harassment campaigns.

    I wonder how much power and authority some people must feel when they aware someone else with a colored belt...I wouldn't know personally, of course. I'll bet it's profound on some level, and the more of a megalomaniac you are, the more profound it is.
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 9/05/2017 4:01pm at .

  5. #25

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    None on this matters, it is between them.
    The belt does not matter, the practitioner in question will either be able to beat people with higher belts during rolls and/or competition or they won't be able to.
    If they cannot roll due to disability, then people who did compete widely and have trained for decades will be able to tell instantly if they show techniques and teach well or they don't.
    Let me explain this once and only once:
    Everyone defends their own rank in BJJ,
    either by rolling ability,
    or by being a walking/crawling/wheelchairing encyclopedia of teaching knowledge,
    or by being so deep in dementia and disability that they cannot speak for themselves but they are well remembered widely by people (who are themselves known asskickers) for kicking people's asses and teaching others to do so that their rank can not be disputed.
    This "colored belt" needs no defense from us.
    They will defend their own self.
    There is one time honored argument for "self-promotion" in G/BJJ: if you dispute my belt, then take it off me, if you can.
    And every new BJJ room you enter will try...they will test you, and the higher your belt, the greater liberty they will generally take in testing you (which is the opposite of many "traditional" martial arts).
    In my room, anyone may ask anyone to grapple.
    And every visiting black belt tends to ask me to grapple.
    I am middle aged, and slow, and even slightly disabled.
    And I drill more than I grapple these days on a daily basis.
    But I very rarely say no, when someone asks me to grapple (if you have an active skin infection, that would qualify).
    Because although I am a reformed knucklehead, I am still a knucklehead.
    And all real Gracie / Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belts have gotten their asses kicked and their bodies beaten so many times that they see an unpleasant ass kicking the way other people see bread.
    Helio Gracie said, "two men playing, I smell blood".
    The mats answer questions about rank better than any paper or any belt color.
    So, don't bother defending that person's right to rank, that is their job, and the job of the people who testify that person kicked their asses or the champions that testify that person taught them something really material in their journey.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 9/05/2017 8:07pm at .

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