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  1. chickenbox123 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2014 2:19pm


     Style: Isshinryu Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Basically, verrrry basically, if you end up flat on your back, with both shoulders on the mat, it's because you have given up. The finish is inevitable, and all you are doing now is delaying it.

    Don't give up. Keep fighting to get one of those shoulders off the ground, keep your arms in tight and give your opponent the odd little bump before he can get comfortable. If you don't let him settle in he will eventually try something he shouldn't, and that's when you explode out. Recognising that opportunity is the tricky part.
    Yeah I see. At my school, they teach that whenever you're in a bad position (Bottom side, bottom mount, back), you should relax and wait for your opponent to make a mistake. I Think my problem is that I'm too relaxed, and I resist too little, and that makes it quite easy for someone to just slap on some shoulder pressure or what-time-is it. I have class in a few hours, and I'll work more on trying to make them uncomfortable, and have them work for the position.
  2. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2014 2:36pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenbox123 View Post
    Yeah I see. At my school, they teach that whenever you're in a bad position (Bottom side, bottom mount, back), you should relax and wait for your opponent to make a mistake. I Think my problem is that I'm too relaxed, and I resist too little, and that makes it quite easy for someone to just slap on some shoulder pressure or what-time-is it. I have class in a few hours, and I'll work more on trying to make them uncomfortable, and have them work for the position.

    As I said, that was very basic advice, so I don't want to contradict your teachers. Also, I should have been clear that the time to do this is before your opponent has a chance to solidify his position. He might get past your guard, he might get on top of you with something that looks a bit like a pin, but do not just accept this make him work to get tot the stage where he is comfortable in his position.
  3. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2014 3:47pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Basic mount defense is the defense



  4. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2014 3:55pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One last good one for you to watch
  5. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2014 4:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by chickenbox123 View Post
    I guess I'm coming to terms with the fact that my defense to that should start well ahead of time.
    Yes, good positioning and "framing" as I've heard it called in BJJ is critical to avoid getting controlled. I did it for years in Judo, but nobody had a name for it, LOL. Japanese are pretty parsimonious with naming positions other than finishes.

    You just can't lay their on your back and then try to escape...you have to be active. It takes a lot of experience and practice to get there. Keep training and you will eventually.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2014 4:28pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenbox123 View Post
    Yeah I see. At my school, they teach that whenever you're in a bad position (Bottom side, bottom mount, back), you should relax and wait for your opponent to make a mistake. I Think my problem is that I'm too relaxed, and I resist too little, and that makes it quite easy for someone to just slap on some shoulder pressure or what-time-is it. I have class in a few hours, and I'll work more on trying to make them uncomfortable, and have them work for the position.
    Interesting, I've noticed some of the BJJ guys I roll with doing the same thing. I was wondering what was going on...in Judo getting pinned is equivalent to being subbed (probably even more humiliating, LOL!) so I at least don't tend to just relax when I'm pinned or in a bad position. I'm always trying to get a better position or angle as I can relatively safely without giving up an arm, my neck, or my back, and then waiting for my chance to slip or explode out, depending on what happens. It's all very situational, but of course some scenarios and classes of relative positions tend to repeat themselves.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2014 5:06pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I'm always trying to get a better position or angle as I can relatively safely without giving up an arm, my neck, or my back, and then waiting for my chance to slip or explode out, depending on what happens. It's all very situational, but of course some scenarios and classes of relative positions tend to repeat themselves.
    Ideally from my understanding of the BJJ Philosophy is to always advance your position but to not use a lot of energy to do it. So one should always be working to get their frames and angles but not to do so by trying to muscle the position over and over again.
    The Jiu-Jitsu universtity book by Saulo Riberio does a really good job in the first chapter going over the concepts of "survival" and being in safe places.
  8. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2014 6:02pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    1
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Ideally from my understanding of the BJJ Philosophy is to always advance your position but to not use a lot of energy to do it. So one should always be working to get their frames and angles but not to do so by trying to muscle the position over and over again.
    The Jiu-Jitsu universtity book by Saulo Riberio does a really good job in the first chapter going over the concepts of "survival" and being in safe places.
    You mean like maximum efficient or best use of energy ?

    Of course, I agree...

    When I roll with guys who are 20-30 years younger than me and/or outweigh me by 50-100 pounds (which is basically what I do in BJJ class), "survival" and "safe place" are a priority for me at all times.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2014 6:07pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    You mean like maximum efficient or best use of energy ?

    Of course, I agree...

    When I roll with guys who are 20-30 years younger than me and/or outweigh me by 50-100 pounds (which is basically what I do in BJJ class), "survival" and "safe place" are a priority for me at all times.
    Exactly and it wasn't so much directed at you even though I quoted you. Given that you have a lot more grappling experience then I do. I stated it to help the OP get a better grasp of the whole conserving energy and being relaxed idea.
    One shouldn't relax in a none safe place. With safe of course having varying degrees.

    One of the reasons I showed him the video of the two black belts rolling is it shows a good ebb and flow of energy use, framing, and exploding.

    I should have probably provided commentary on the video itself but I think there are things that are helpful to sort of self discover by watching people roll and compete vs watching instructional videos.
  10. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2014 7:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Exactly and it wasn't so much directed at you even though I quoted you. Given that you have a lot more grappling experience then I do. I stated it to help the OP get a better grasp of the whole conserving energy and being relaxed idea.
    One shouldn't relax in a none safe place. With safe of course having varying degrees.

    One of the reasons I showed him the video of the two black belts rolling is it shows a good ebb and flow of energy use, framing, and exploding.

    I should have probably provided commentary on the video itself but I think there are things that are helpful to sort of self discover by watching people roll and compete vs watching instructional videos.
    I think the vids you posted were good, and if the OP wants he can get some good ideas/concepts from them.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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