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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Defending what-time-is-it grip from side control.

    My school is big on using the white time is it grip as a means to pressure an opponent into making a mistake, from mount, and especially side control. It's extremely uncomfortable, and I'm almost powerless to stop it once someone starts applying it. I've asked my instructors about how to defend it, to which their reply was scoffing and saying basically, "Don't let someone take your side." their simple answer is that there really is no good defense that won't put you out of position or open you up.

    If anyone has any idea as to how to go about defending it, I'd really like to hear. It's making the bottom side control position an extremely dangerous one for me. At times, more dangerous than mount or back control.

  2. #2
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    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickenbox123 View Post
    My school is big on using the white time is it grip as a means to pressure an opponent into making a mistake, from mount, and especially side control. It's extremely uncomfortable, and I'm almost powerless to stop it once someone starts applying it. I've asked my instructors about how to defend it, to which their reply was scoffing and saying basically, "Don't let someone take your side." their simple answer is that there really is no good defense that won't put you out of position or open you up.

    If anyone has any idea as to how to go about defending it, I'd really like to hear. It's making the bottom side control position an extremely dangerous one for me. At times, more dangerous than mount or back control.
    You mean this:
    http://www.bjjmanifesto.com/whattimeisitgrip.html
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  3. #3

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    Yes, that's actually my instructor Rob Kahn. He teaches at my gym, Gracie Tampa. Real big on using what time is it to get the gift wrap, and from there it's armbar or back take. Really good offensive stuff that I employ in my game, but he hasn't taught a single way to defend it well lmao.

  4. #4
    You have to work the look. supporting member
    CrackFox's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're flat on your back, mounted and your opponent is now harassing you to open your defenses? To quote a popular line of BJJ youtube clips - you fucked up a long time ago.

    The ideal way of dealing with this would be to not get mounted in the first place. It's a really bad place to be. Failing that, don't let your opponent flatten you out and get in a comfortable enough position where he's thinking about how to pop open your defenses. Instead have him worrying about how he's going to complete the pin.

  5. #5

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It seems like if you've got your hands up near your face/neck (elbows still in) that's a lot harder to put on. Either by sliding the opposite side hand (so the guy on the bottom's left in the video) between the attacker's arm and my cheek then pushing away; or maybe with the same side hand getting under the elbow. You only need to prevent the effective cross face to keep your mobility to bridge or get on your side a bit, etc.

    Of course, when it's on that's bad. It's easy to say 'don't let them put it on' what I find more useful is telling myself 'don't be still while they put it on'...applies to everything. Sure they're get stuff sometimes, but if you're in the habit of moving you'll find and take advantage of the openings more and more.

  6. #6
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    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickenbox123 View Post
    Yes, that's actually my instructor Rob Kahn. He teaches at my gym, Gracie Tampa. Real big on using what time is it to get the gift wrap, and from there it's armbar or back take. Really good offensive stuff that I employ in my game, but he hasn't taught a single way to defend it well lmao.
    So you asked, and apparently he told you "don't get there in the first place". Which is good advice on his part of course.

    In the distant past, I worked a LOT on escapes/reversals from pins (oseakomi) in my judo training. My instructors back then were pretty old school in their approach. But all of them always told me "best not to get pinned in the first place", and we worked on that a lot as well. Back then, 30 seconds of being pinned and you lost the match. It was more of a survival trait in long randori/rolling sessions on the ground, because if some big bastard got you down, he was under no obligation to let you up for the next 5 minutes...

    In any case, you have excellent instruction where you are. How long have you been training? If you are a noob or fairly "noobish", you are going to get pinned/controlled and dominated to the degree that your training partner wants, more or less.

    As CrackFox points out, you fucked up a long time ago if you are mounted and tied up. Ask your instructor for specifics, but train hard to not get their in the first place.

    As a practical matter, the usual "keep your arms in tight, shrimp/bump and try to get more onto your side facing your training partner, making space gradually...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  7. #7
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's already been said but it basically comes down to don't let them get that grip on you in the first place; fighting for grips and evading grips is your best defense against all attacks involving a good grip...

    Whether standing or on the ground going past that point is when imo your options dwindle significantly in the defense department. An established grip from mount is already riding the nuke down, if you get my meaning.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/12/2014 12:32pm at .

  8. #8

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    The issue for me doesn't start in mount though, it starts when they have my side. I've been working on my guard game to try combat them getting to my side, but the issue still stands that I'm powerless when they do.

  9. #9

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    I guess I'm coming to terms with the fact that my defense to that should start well ahead of time.

  10. #10
    You have to work the look. supporting member
    CrackFox's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Basically, verrrry basically, if you end up flat on your back, with both shoulders on the mat, it's because you have given up. The finish is inevitable, and all you are doing now is delaying it.

    Don't give up. Keep fighting to get one of those shoulders off the ground, keep your arms in tight and give your opponent the odd little bump before he can get comfortable. If you don't let him settle in he will eventually try something he shouldn't, and that's when you explode out. Recognising that opportunity is the tricky part.

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