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  1. Cuddles is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2014 12:32am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    How many good and bad cops are there?

    With so much media coverage on cop rape, cop murders, no-knock raids (with flashbanged infants!), cop brutality, cop corruption with the justice system, and cop quotas (NYPD), it really has me wondering how many good and bad cops there are.

    An example of the media that gets spread around.


    Since cops tend to get smaller sentences or punishments than the general public, it almost feels like they're using their badge as an excuse to do whatever they want. Almost like the Hollywood, "FBI" flip.



    Not to mention the privileges that police get over the general public. Just look at Frein. If he had murdered 3 normal civilians he wouldn't have gotten such a large investigation as he has from killing 1 cop who banged brother's wife.

    Though I suppose that just shows the incompetency of police, since once one commando who somewhat knows what he's doing appears, they can't catch him.

    (Personally, I think that the PA police keep finding "evidence" in order to keep their public image from falling. You can't have people unafraid of the police afterall... wait what?)

    I mean, people used to look up to cops. Now the general public seems to be scared of the increasingly militarized police forces. The police's mission has also changed over the years, from "Serve and Protect" to "Enforce the Law". Hence, LEOs.


    I'm well aware of the fact that the cops aren't on the people's side, but do they really need to be antagonistic?

    But I know that some of you here are LEOs and know far more than me. Could you give me your point of view? How many good and bad cops are there? 70% good and 30% bad? Do you support no-knock raids?
  2. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2014 12:38am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
    it really has me wondering how many good and bad cops there are.
    How many good and bad people are there? There's your answer.
  3. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2014 12:48am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well here is some perspective.
    Now think about how The Federal Government has a number of LEO organizations, every single State has a LEO unit, has its own Leo org and every County has a LEO org and virtually every incorporated city has a LEO org.
    This means we have 100s of thousands of cops in this country.

    All made up of well people and people have flaws and make mistakes.
    Power corrupts and even worse the ones that just want to do a good job are asked to deal with the worse of society day in and day out which takes a toll in itself. It becomes easy for them to assume the worse about a person they are dealing with.

    On top of that cops get blamed for policies that they don't set, for laws they didn't right and for mistakes made by judges and political figures.

    Even with all of that, we only get a handful of cases of these sorts of news stories.
    Think about that a huge country with a population of 316 Million people we hear about the **** ups of every single police organization. Every mistake is actually news worthy as opposed to business as usual.

    So honestly this country has some of the best police on the planet. For the most part they follow the rule of law. When they don't you, usually have civil recourse you can take.

    I have been in countries where the rule of law is the rule of the guy with a badge and its not a good thing at all.

    Hear is the thing we as citizens have the option of going to the law makers and executive branch elected officials and we can get polices and laws changed.

    You don't like no knock warrants get involved in local politics. Cause law enforcement is largely local.

    Also putting pressure on senators, congressmen, and governors to end the war on drugs would help quite a bit.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence
  4. slamdunc is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2014 5:37am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    How many good and bad people are there? There's your answer.
    When cops commit misdeeds, it is more highly publicized due to the fact that we should be held to a higher standard and any public figure makes a good example / target. This also stands true with educators, clergy and (lol) politicians.

    If an assembler at a factory rapes a co-worker while on duty, it will likely make the local news if / when he is arrested, prosecuted and convicted. If a cop in Leesburg, FL has sex while on duty and catches a case, it hits the AP and the web immediately.

    Cops are human beings; they have the same desires and urges as plumbers. In theory, the psychological profile, background investigation and polygraph will prevent those with 'tendencies' from being hired. The vetting process catches a percentage, but many slip through the cracks and inflict themselves on the public.

    Over the past twenty plus years, I have worked with some very good people. Conversely, I have worked with thieves, liars and rapists with badges. Every time one of these thugs succumbs to their urges, the rest of us have to work ten times harder to restore / keep the public trust.

    I am the last person in the world who would defend the actions of a criminal, ESPECIALLY if they were a cop. The 'Thin Blue Line' **** that used to protect bad cops has gotten a whole lot thinner over the past thirty years. Nobody subscribes to that crap any longer.
  5. Holy Moment is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2014 7:14am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!


    I counted one good cop and four bad cops.
  6. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2014 11:46am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As noted earlier bad policies play a key role. If you dont want cars searched for standard traffic stops, no knock warrants, or civil forfeiture you have to make it happen through government ( and yes it is difficult, so is police work and everything else worth doing). The next question is how well is your department set up. Is funding correct and dependable? Are mental health services available? Does the rest of the day to day government work? Is your town friendly to business opportunities? Do you enforce ordinances against businesses that maintain a safe business? All of these come into play and more.
  7. Cuddles is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2014 4:55pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So I understand that not all cops are bad.

    But what about how cops use their badges to protect them?
    http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/robert-leone/
    To go with his black eye and brutal beating, Mr. Leone was literally charged with breaking a trooper’s fist with his face — “aggravated assault” on a police officer. The 2 dozen charges included four serious felonies for which he could feasibly be spending the rest of his natural life in prison.
    When the prosecution rested it’s case, Mr. Leone’s court-appointed public defender had an opportunity to rip the DA and the arresting troopers to shreds...

    ...Instead of a rebuttal, the public defender offered three (apparently) magic words when it was time for her to defend her client: “The defense rests.”

    Despite a non-existent defense effort, Leone was found guilty by the jury of only four of the two dozen charges....

    ...[Leone was] sentenced to 2.5 to 4 years in prison.
    The Pennsylvania State Police officially cleared its own troopers of any and all wrongdoing regarding the entire handling of the Robert Leone case from start-to-finish. Corporal Roger Stipcak and all of the other four participating troopers kept their jobs and faced no legal repercussions.
    Beaten in the stop, again in the hospital, again in the barracks, and again in transport.


    I mean, it's one thing if a cop is bad. Then sure, we have one corrupt cop out of the thousands.

    But when it's 4 at once? Suddenly the right to call another cop over to bear witness is useless.
    And then the entire State Trooper department? That's huge.
    And then the entire jury system too? So none of the cops got charged with anything and Leone was found guilty without even being able to defend himself.

    Huffington Post, CBS News, Blaze, WBNG News.

    Edit: With things like this though, I'm not too surprised at Frein tbh. I mean, he's using the second amendment for its original intended purpose.
    Last edited by Cuddles; 10/26/2014 5:07pm at .
  8. slamdunc is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2014 5:06pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
    So I understand that not all cops are bad. But what about how cops use their badges to protect them?
    When this is the case, no can defend. I am a staunch supporter of body cams for law enforcement. Any officer working the streets should see this as the only sure way to protect themselves from conjured up criminal defenses based on uses of force.
  9. Cuddles is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2014 5:30pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by slamdunc View Post
    When this is the case, no can defend. I am a staunch supporter of body cams for law enforcement. Any officer working the streets should see this as the only sure way to protect themselves from conjured up criminal defenses based on uses of force.
    I am too.

    But is that it? Go out, vote (which is frustratingly rare in youths nowadays), and try to propose legislature demanding bodycams?

    How about when the police destroy a civilian's cameras to cover up evidence? With the jury working with them, doesn't that make the police invulnerable?

    First six results of google brings up:


    And once again, are the amount of bad cops proportionally the same as the amount of bad people? Because power corrupts, so I'd assume that there'd be a higher percentage of bad cops than bad citizens.

    Maybe I should become high-ranking a LEO and fix the system inside out. Don't know if it'd be a good job though or if I could get it changed. I'd hate to have to do bad things just because my CO "said so". How do you guys feel about it?

    I have the grades and SAT (2200, 98.6th percentile) to get a good college, get a good job, etc. I was planning on engineering. I'm definitely not going military, but police seems to combine my love of guns and ambition to change the system.

    I just don't know how feasible it is to become both a high-ranking officer (I've been told it's extremely difficult) and "fix" the broken system.


    Or I could run and move to a non-police state (like Vermont) after graduating and live a comfortable life there.
    Last edited by Cuddles; 10/26/2014 5:35pm at .
  10. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2014 5:57pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
    With so much media coverage on cop rape, cop murders, no-knock raids (with flashbanged infants!), cop brutality, cop corruption with the justice system, and cop quotas (NYPD), it really has me wondering how many good and bad cops there are.

    An example of the media that gets spread around.


    Since cops tend to get smaller sentences or punishments than the general public, it almost feels like they're using their badge as an excuse to do whatever they want. Almost like the Hollywood, "FBI" flip.



    Not to mention the privileges that police get over the general public. Just look at Frein. If he had murdered 3 normal civilians he wouldn't have gotten such a large investigation as he has from killing 1 cop who banged brother's wife.

    Though I suppose that just shows the incompetency of police, since once one commando who somewhat knows what he's doing appears, they can't catch him.

    (Personally, I think that the PA police keep finding "evidence" in order to keep their public image from falling. You can't have people unafraid of the police afterall... wait what?)

    I mean, people used to look up to cops. Now the general public seems to be scared of the increasingly militarized police forces. The police's mission has also changed over the years, from "Serve and Protect" to "Enforce the Law". Hence, LEOs.


    I'm well aware of the fact that the cops aren't on the people's side, but do they really need to be antagonistic?

    But I know that some of you here are LEOs and know far more than me. Could you give me your point of view? How many good and bad cops are there? 70% good and 30% bad? Do you support no-knock raids?
    What do you base all this opinion on? Stuff you have seen on the internet?

    The police's mission has also changed over the years, from "Serve and Protect" to "Enforce the Law".
    Upon what do you base that statement? IMO, most of these "good old days" of law enforcement types are wearing coke bottle bottom rose colored glasses. Seriously? Back in the "good old days" you would have been sapped into unconsciousness for simply mouthing off to a cop. People who believe the police of decades ago were better are either basing their opinions on popular media or were simply not around back then. In general we have never had as well trained a police force as we have now. What we do have is a cell phone video driven hype-fest that spreads a lot regional and individual **** ups over a profession that is a unique by department as people are unique unto themselves.

    And the whole "protect and serve" meme when used against the cops is just that...a meme spouted by people with little understanding of police history. "Protect and Serve" was a motto devised by the LAPD in the 50's, it was never intended to be used as the definition for police in society.

    While I would like to protect everyone and everything from harm that's simply not possible and while I do provide a public "service" I'm no individual persons "servant".

    When it comes down to definitions, criminology texts state that the Police are around for (1) preventing crime, (2) investigating crimes and apprehending criminals, (3) maintaining order, and (4) providing other miscellaneous services. Which cover things like making your kids go to school because you don't know how to, getting Raccoon's out of attics and taking vehicle collision reports.

    Mayberry only existed on television.
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