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  1. blackmonk is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2014 1:33pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    Additionally I have found the angle of my head during execution dictates the success of my throw and the prevention of a counter throw and allows me to continue to a harai goshi if I can't penetrate deep enough.
    So that would lead me to ask in what specific direction are you looking? At their rear 45'? To the side? Straight back?

    Or are you simply looking downward and responding to uke as he unbalances?
  2. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2014 1:54pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    So that would lead me to ask in what specific direction are you looking? At their rear 45'? To the side? Straight back?

    Or are you simply looking downward and responding to uke as he unbalances?
    Keep your head up, looking down is rarely if ever a good idea. Keep your head aligned with your body.

    ***Edit*** To clarify, bending your neck/head forward is what I"m talking about, as in tucking your chin.

    In Osoto Gari, you would turn your head as you finish. For a RH throw, that would be to your left, as you reap and rotate your shoulders. That facilitates to maintain upper body contact and apply rotational force to uke, although it's primarily a "down throw", in that you are throwing uke as straight down as possible (in the end).

    If you end up with more of an Osoto Otoshi action, then it's pretty much straight down, although you would still turn your head.

    For example of head turning, look at about 1 minute mark. Osoto Otoshi at about 1:16.

    Osoto something at 2:15; note when he rotates his shoulders a bit. Sometimes it looks like he is looking to the ref for the score (which he is, LOL).

    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2014 2:09pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    So that would lead me to ask in what specific direction are you looking? At their rear 45'? To the side? Straight back?

    Or are you simply looking downward and responding to uke as he unbalances?
    As a general rule (for my students) I go with the exaggerated view of looking at their heel.

    I also don't grip the gi during the throw. I believe I adopted that because of MMA but it's been working for me so well that I've never gone back to the traditional lapel or jacket grabs.
  4. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2014 2:10pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Keep your head up, looking down is rarely if ever a good idea. Keep your head aligned with your body.

    ***Edit*** To clarify, bending your neck/head forward is what I"m talking about, as in tucking your chin.

    In Osoto Gari, you would turn your head as you finish. For a RH throw, that would be to your left, as you reap and rotate your shoulders. That facilitates to maintain upper body contact and apply rotational force to uke, although it's primarily a "down throw", in that you are throwing uke as straight down as possible (in the end).

    If you end up with more of an Osoto Otoshi action, then it's pretty much straight down, although you would still turn your head.

    For example of head turning, look at about 1 minute mark. Osoto Otoshi at about 1:16.

    Osoto something at 2:15; note when he rotates his shoulders a bit. Sometimes it looks like he is looking to the ref for the score (which he is, LOL).


    I guess we weren't talking the same thing.
  5. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2014 3:04pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    I guess we weren't talking the same thing.
    More or less we were. There are different approaches and ways to make things work. Ono is doing something that is similar to what Blackmonk wants to do.
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  6. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2014 3:08pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    As a general rule (for my students) I go with the exaggerated view of looking at their heel.

    I also don't grip the gi during the throw. I believe I adopted that because of MMA but it's been working for me so well that I've never gone back to the traditional lapel or jacket grabs.
    I find myself doing the same thing as well, but it's not due to MMA. 1.) my right shoulder is fucked (AC tear). A traditional grip just doesn't have any stability for me now.

    2.) More head control is better, especially for non-experts at the throw (like me). Ono manages to throw without around the head control, but, he's an expert obviously. I had a Japanese sensei who was able to to the same thing...it was his favorite technique...he called it "hooking Osoto Gari".

    Which heel ?
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  7. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2014 5:48pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I find myself doing the same thing as well, but it's not due to MMA. 1.) my right shoulder is fucked (AC tear). A traditional grip just doesn't have any stability for me now.

    2.) More head control is better, especially for non-experts at the throw (like me). Ono manages to throw without around the head control, but, he's an expert obviously. I had a Japanese sensei who was able to to the same thing...it was his favorite technique...he called it "hooking Osoto Gari".

    Which heel ?
    On the leg they're reaping.
  8. blackmonk is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/04/2014 2:59pm

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    In the Pedro video, he advocates pulling the sleeve grip into the hip, like the back-pocket kuzushi that a lot of Eastern European players use.

    Is that something you guys do, as well?

    I did some speed drills with o soto last night, and some of those throws were thunderous. I'll work on it some more this weekend and pay careful attention to the direction I'm looking.
  9. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/04/2014 6:10pm

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    O soto gari is my tokuiwaza, so here's my two penneth.

    The classical practicing entry is usually done wrong, it's done wrong because people line up so tori's left foot is opposite uke's right and vice versa, tori then steps diagonally left or right, depending on which is their dominant hand to start the technique. This sends their body off in the wrong direction and ruins hand action.

    When practicing standard O soto uchikomi always start offset from your partner, so your entry step is pretty much straight forward



    This also applies to randori. It is almost impossible to throw a competent opponent with uke and tori both having standard sleeve and lapel grips when you're face on.

    If you're offset from uke then a canonical O soto gari can work, but is best done using action re-action as a follow up to a strong and genuie Ko uchi gari or Sasae tsuri komi ashi attack



    The most common competition and randori entry is done from kenka yotsu when tori has his right hand in a controlling position on uke's collar and left hand in a controlling position on uke's sleeve end.



    From this position the key points are to keep uke's sleeve pinned towards the ground, maintain hopping momentum at a rugh 45 degree angle from their right leg from tori's perspective and a strong driving tsurite action to break their balance over their right leg, which is pinned to the mat by the combination of the downward pressure on the sleeve and the driving/reaping action of the leg/tsurite hand.

    The sleeve is probably the most important aspect in this situation, if you don't have that sleeve control your hopping driving O soto is not going to be as effective. Uke will either turn out for a lower score, break the technique or at worst counter for a score.

    If you can't get dominant control of the sleeve, if for example, you have double lapel or your opponent doesn't have a sleeve or gripping rules don't allow your to achieve a dominant sleeve grip. Then the attacking methodology changes.

    In this scenario emphasis needs to be on controlling uke's head and using your lapel/collar grip to drive them over the reaped leg thus pinning their weight on it, whilst hopping/driving into the canonical position at which point sleeve control becomes less important and the control over the head and upper body becomes paramount.

    Note when I say emphasis it is meant to mean that the two different approaches require more on one than the other, not that sleeve control is less important than head control. For a really good O soto sleeve control and head control should be equally important, but in the slightly different contest versions the weighting of the emphasis tends to shift slightly.
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/04/2014 6:19pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    In the Pedro video, he advocates pulling the sleeve grip into the hip, like the back-pocket kuzushi that a lot of Eastern European players use.

    Is that something you guys do, as well?
    Yes, mostly. The method Pedro shows is that he originally attacks at a 45 degree angle, but he then straightens up. I tend to keep attacking at a 45 degree angle so I not only pull towards my own hip but tend not to turn as Pedro does but keep attacking in the same direction, which is a slightly different mechanic, but achieves the same end.
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