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  1. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2014 12:45pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    There have gen other guys doing the same thing in the past. One guy master safakhoo repackaged his kung fu as Nabbard, a Persian marital art. There s an Indian guy who claims to teach "Apache knife fighting." To me it's kind of sketchy but as long a they admit it's a reconstructed system based on speculation using educated efforts to reproduce a lost art it may be legit. I look at pankration, bartitsu, or Irish stick fighting as examples. Unless I'm wrong and there has been an unbroken lineage with any of my examples. The problem i see with the afrikan martial arts guy here and what separates him from the more reputable reconstructed arts are: 1) his awarding of his own 10th degree rank 2) how his art was developed, did he research actual African fighting methods? Or is the fact that he is African American his sole claim to call the assert an African American system. I would think a system like 52 blocks would have more of a claim to such a title, but that's another mess.
    Agreed with all of the above. I would also suggest that taking one seminar and basing your weapons work off of that (not to mention claiming to be a weapons expert in the process), as if you actually know anything worth teaching, is a highly dangerous thing to do. He mentions no actual classes or other direct training in FMA, which suggests there probably is none because he mentions everything else under the sun.

    Anyone who has been to a Dan Inosanto seminar can attest to the fact that it is like trying to drink from a fire hose. Guro Dan is not there to systematically teach you the system. Rather, he is there to get his instructors up to date with what he has been working on and where the system is going at that particular time and place. Anyone, no matter how gifted, who walks into a Guro Dan seminar without significant training prior to it, is going to be completely lost in about 5 minutes unless they happened to get partnered up with someone who has a few years of training in the system ahead of time. He throws things at you constantly, shows 5 or 6 variations of virtually everything he teaches, and gives very little time for drilling before moving on to the next thing. He also does not allow video recording, so its not like you are going to be able to review things later.

    When I went, I regularly saw instructors teaming up to take notes on things so that they could get together later and compile them in hopes that they would get the majority of what he was showing, and these were associate and full instructors, some of whom had been training with Guro Dan for 20 years or more, not someone who was there for the first time. Those same instructors told me not to bother trying to follow all of the variations, but rather try to work the first two in hopes that you would get some of what he was throwing at you before he moved on to the next thing.

    All in all, this whole thing seems incredibly fishy to me, and from what I can tell at this point, has the markings of a Bullshido situation. Hopefully, some of the more experienced persons here who are used to doing these sorts of things will come along and help us out.
  2. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/25/2014 11:48am

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tom Green, an anthropology professor at the University of Texas, wrote a terrific essay on the development of martial arts as part of the Afrikanist worldview.

    IMO, if all that's being claimed is general inspiration from African styles and the actual training is specifically traced to a Dan Inosanto seminar in the '80s, then there are no serious red flags as far as that goes. I do think this guy should hop a flight to Haiti and train in an apparently genuine African diasporic machete fighting style:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuNEQaYMd0U
  3. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2014 12:59pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    IMO, if all that's being claimed is general inspiration from African styles and the actual training is specifically traced to a Dan Inosanto seminar in the '80s, then there are no serious red flags as far as that goes.
    Taking the info gained from one seminar and then claiming to be a weapons expert based upon that seems like a pretty big red flag to me.
  4. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/25/2014 1:37pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not addressing the techniques nor the guy's proficiency, just noting that he's offering a specific credit to Inosanto, rather than claiming to be teaching a "historical" form of African American machete fighting. Plenty of others have gone the other way, by fudging the actual origins and inspirations of their newly-revealed "ancestral" style.
  5. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2014 1:45pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    I'm not addressing the techniques nor the guy's proficiency, just noting that he's offering a specific credit to Inosanto, rather than claiming to be teaching a "historical" form of African American machete fighting. Plenty of others have gone the other way, by fudging the actual origins and inspirations of their newly-revealed "ancestral" style.
    Agreed to a point, he actually does a bit of both.

    First he says this:
    Although the foundation of the African American Machete system in the African American Martial Art of Kwa Asilia A Vita Sanaa is based on our African ancestors fighting for freedom with the machete during the African Holocaust of Enslavement,...
    Then, goes on to acknowledge that the influence has nothing to do with African anything.

    Regardless, making up your own system and basing it on a hand full of hours of seminar based instruction, glossing yourself as a 10th degree grandmaster, and then passing it off as sort of racially based thing, seems pretty darn shady to me.
  6. Permalost is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/25/2014 2:29pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinch2 View Post
    Regardless, making up your own system and basing it on a hand full of hours of seminar based instruction, glossing yourself as a 10th degree grandmaster, and then passing it off as sort of racially based thing, seems pretty darn shady to me.
    One might wonder why a self-created martial art with all African trappings would even bother adopting the dan/kyu ranking system.
  7. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/25/2014 2:33pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My best guess is that he means to imply "we are inspired by the idea of our African ancestors fighting for freedom with the machete" and that the actual style of Kwa Asilia A Vita Sanaa is an homage to that idea, via basically FMA techniques.

    Again, given that an apparently genuine African diasporic machete fighting art is actually being taught in Haiti, IMO he could do a lot worse than to study that style and maybe import it to the US.
  8. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/25/2014 2:39pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    One might wonder why a self-created martial art with all African trappings would even bother adopting the dan/kyu ranking system.
    That sort of eclecticism is fairly typical of Afrikanist martial arts. Again, Tom Green's essay is well worth reading in this regard.
  9. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2014 3:38pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    My best guess is that he means to imply "we are inspired by the idea of our African ancestors fighting for freedom with the machete" and that the actual style of Kwa Asilia A Vita Sanaa is an homage to that idea, via basically FMA techniques.

    Again, given that an apparently genuine African diasporic machete fighting art is actually being taught in Haiti, IMO he could do a lot worse than to study that style and maybe import it to the US.
    He could do a lot worse than to get legitimate training anywhere, rather than claiming to be a weapons expert after attending one seminar.
  10. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2014 3:38pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    That sort of eclecticism is fairly typical of Afrikanist martial arts. Again, Tom Green's essay is well worth reading in this regard.
    Its also fairly typical of people that are selling something that is complete and utter BS.
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