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  1. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2014 10:06am


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    African American Machete = Afrikan Kimarekani Fimbo Kisu?

    OK. So this is the first time I have done this and I hope I am doing it properly. I checked the sticky for requirements and I believe that I am in compliance. I have no vendetta, I will contribute to the best of my ability, etc. I also did a search prior to posting this using the terms "African American Machete", "African American Shadow Boxing", and "Grandmaster Rogers". No hits came back from the search which seemed to be related to this.

    The history of my coming across this is simple. A video was posted on myFMA.net, which claims to be of the "African American Machete" system. Here is a link to their page on myFMA.net, and a link to the video they posted which caught my eye.
    http://www.myfma.net/profile/african...ource=activity
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qydfBM2raDY

    Please note, the only reason I saw this video is because it showed up in the recent posts section of the forum. I did not go looking for this.

    Here is a description of the video from their FB page:
    Although the foundation of the African American Machete system in the African American Martial Art of Kwa Asilia A Vita Sanaa is based on our African ancestors fighting for freedom with the machete during the African Holocaust of Enslavement, the fact is that Grandmaster Rogers uses the movements and understanding of fighting with bladed weapons taught to him by some of the greatest Filipino Martial Arts masters in the world, (Dan Insanto, Ted Lucay Lucay, Cass Magda & Grandmaster Anthony Davis).
    https://www.facebook.com/africanamericanshadowboxing


    However, if you read the description below the youtube vid, it claims that what they are showing is based upon what appears to be only one seminar with Guro Dan, Ted Lucay Lucay, etc. back in the 1980's.
    In "Kwa Asilia Avita Sanaa" Grandmaster Rogers teaches what we call (Kisu Na Fimbo) African American knife & stick/cane fighting. Which is based on the very basic Filipino Martial Arts taught to him by Dan Inosanto, Ted Lucay Lucay& Cass Magda at a seminar put on by Grandmaster Anthony Davis in 1983. This African American Machete system in Kwa Asilia Avita Sanaa is Grandmaster Rogers own creation and represents a tribute to the African American Machete used as a tool to cut brush, sugar cane and as a weapon for the purpose of freedom fighting during the Afrikan Holocaust of Enslavement.
    Here is the website, where the person claims to be a 10th degree blackbelt, and grandmaster. In addition, he claims to be certified by the California College of Martial Arts.
    http://www.africanmartialarts.8m.com/about.html


    I will leave it there for now. It looks fishy to me, and again, I would never have come across this had they not posted it on an FMA forum. What it looks like, is that this guy went to one seminar, probably with about 50 other people, learned a couple of basic drills (which having gone to Guro Dan seminars in the past I can tell you is about all you are going to pick up if you don't come in with previous experience), glossed himself as a grandmaster and 10th degree blackbelt, and started his own system with made up roots and history.

    Whether that is what it actually is I cannot say, but that is my impression so far.

    I am happy to try to dig for any additional information, and I hope that I have handled this properly to this point. Perhaps I am wrong and there is nothing here.

    Best regards,
    Last edited by jwinch2; 6/22/2014 10:14am at .
  2. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2014 2:41pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!


    Here is another video. As can be seen at the beginning is what appears to be some basic FMA of varying quality. After that it looks like he is using a fan (?) and then later a Katana. Some twirling of a cane is mixed in between.


    Here is what appears to be his YouTube page. As can be seen, several of these "demo" videos have been put up in the last few days, so perhaps this is a recent thing, or he is just recently trying to make himself known.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/MfalmeBwana/videos


    And finally, he is another video which seems to show some "judo-like" techniques, and again some FMA of a pretty basic level, and some that is just very odd (the beginning where he is twirling his stick and rocking back and forth is unlike anything I have seen from Guro Dan.

    Last edited by jwinch2; 6/22/2014 2:47pm at .
  3. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2014 3:04pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In case it gets taken down later, here are the claims made on his website:

    Grandmaster S. Rogers,

    (Martial Arts scholar and Historian)

    *Gandmaster Rogers is the recognized 10th degree black belt and Founder of the African American Martial Art of YA or KWA ASILIA A VITA SANAA-MIXED MARTIAL ARTS. Certified by the California College of Martial Arts, Frank Waller, President.


    *President and Founder of The World African American Shadow Boxing Health and Fitness Association


    *Founder of the healing massage technique known as "Martial Therapy" combining rudementary massage, finger pressure massage (Kidole Mkazo Fiki Cha Fupi), stretching, joint manipulation and breathing.

    *African American Martial Arts and general Martial Arts Historian and Lecturer.

    *Instructed Navy Seals, U.S. Marines, and Government Personel at Mare Island Naval Base, Members of the F.B.I., Travis Air Force Base Security Police, and members of several law enforcement agencies including the Suisun, Fairfield and Los Angelas Police Departments in Grappling, Arrest and Control, hand to hand combat, and baton.

    *Grandmaster Instructor and Chief Examiner of the rank, instructors and Master instructors certification program in the African American Martial art of Kwa Asilia Avita Sanaa (The Original Martial Art).

    *Licensed and certified pro boxing cornerman with the California, Nevada, and Atlanta State Athletic Commissions.

    *Former professional boxing cornerman for the former WBA and IBA Heavyweight Champion of the world James "Lights Out" Toney, former professional boxing handler/cornerman for former WBA Lightweight Champion of the world Lakva Sim and Sean "Chizl" Rogers of the James "Lights Out" Toney Boxing Team in association with Goosen/Tutor Promotions. (2003 to 2007)

    *Assistant to John Arthur manager of the World Boxing Council,s 2003 Fighter Of The Year, (Former WBA and IBA Heaveyweight Champion, former IBF Cruiserweight Champion and former IBF Middleweight Champion James "Lights Out" Toney), of the former WBA Lightweight Champion Lakva Sim and of pro boxing new comer Sean "Chizl' Rogers.

    *Recognized by the President Council on Physical Fitness and Sports. Administered by the Ametuer Athletic Union Since 1996.

    *Former Full Contact Kickboxing sparring partner for the former ISKA World Heavyweight Kickboxing Champion Dennis Alexio. Kickboxing training from Dennis Alexio and Kajukenbo Master/professional kickboxing trainer of Dennis Alexio, Eugene "jelly" Ray. (early 1980's)

    *Weapons Training: cold weapons the fundamentals of Kali and Eskrima, from a Dan Inosanto Seminar featuring Ted Lucay Lucay, Cass Magda hosted by Anthony Davis and the sword, staff, short stick, rope, rope stick, fan, cane, from Kuk Sool Won Master Fransico Brewster (early 80's). Firearms safety from shooting gold medalist Mark Hansen.

    *Learn the fundamentals of meditation, breathing, Kinesiology (Touch For Health) and the internal arts from Kriya Yoga Guru Sirji Grianyia, The Wu Shing Tai Chi Master John K. Wong and Kuk Sool Won Master Fransico Brewster (early 80's)

    *Wrestling training from former high school and collegate Roman-grecco wrestling standouts Reginald and Franklin Carter (late 60's to mid 70's)

    *Training from former Mexican Boxing Champion Jesse Lopez.

    *Learned the concept of "Submission Fighting" from members of the Vallejo Police Activity League Judo Club (in 1970), Edward McNair an Associate Deputy Chief Commissioner of the California Penal System (in 1976). and the founder Solano College Judo Club Dr. James H. Tanaka(in 1982).

    *Certified Instructor for the American Airlines Cabin and Crew Self-Defense Program (World BlackBelt Inc.), as a result of 09-11-01.

    *Over 49 years Martial Arts Experience.

    *Over 31 years teaching and massage experience.

    *Winner of over 45 Ametuer Fighting Championships. (Sport Karate [pre 1988 Olympic Games], Judo, Kickboxing)

    *Celebrity and Executive Protection.

    *Former assistant to the General Manager and Personal Trainer at Billy Blanks World Training Center.

    *Crunch Certified Personal Trainer and Fitness Instructor.

    *Film and Television Stunt Fight Choreographer.

    *Trainer to the stars (Erving "Magic" Johnson, Carmen Electra, Tisha Cambell-Martin, Brandy (Singer), April Washington (Stunt Woman), Tommy Lee (Rock Drummer), Monique Comedian), Lisa Ling, Sinbad, and more...).
  4. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2014 12:33pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinch2 View Post


    Here is another video. As can be seen at the beginning is what appears to be some basic FMA of varying quality. After that it looks like he is using a fan (?) and then later a Katana. Some twirling of a cane is mixed in between.


    Here is what appears to be his YouTube page. As can be seen, several of these "demo" videos have been put up in the last few days, so perhaps this is a recent thing, or he is just recently trying to make himself known.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/MfalmeBwana/videos


    And finally, he is another video which seems to show some "judo-like" techniques, and again some FMA of a pretty basic level, and some that is just very odd (the beginning where he is twirling his stick and rocking back and forth is unlike anything I have seen from Guro Dan.

    I love the videos where some guy throws a punch, and gets slashed 20 times with a knife in return.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2014 1:31pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I love the videos where some guy throws a punch, and gets slashed 20 times with a knife in return.
    To be fair to the man in the video, that sort of thing is not uncommon in legitimate FMA videos. Sometimes it is being done to show what sorts of targets are open in a given situation. Sometimes it is just a bit ridiculous.

    My particular concerns are the ones I noted above, but I can certainly understand why you latched on to that.
  6. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2014 3:02pm

    supporting member
     

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I love the videos where some guy throws a punch, and gets slashed 20 times with a knife in return.
    Don't be such a *****. You don't want to live forever, do you?

    This retard needs to get with the program. His African American Machete is no match for my European American Boomstick. Whitey wins again!

    On a more serious note - tying your martial art to your race just makes you a fucking dumbass. It's silly. It's like if I dressed up like a cowboy every time I went out for target practice. And when your skills suck on top of that it makes you a Ronald McDonald level clownfuck.
  7. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2014 4:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Don't be such a *****. You don't want to live forever, do you?

    This retard needs to get with the program. His African American Machete is no match for my European American Boomstick. Whitey wins again!

    On a more serious note - tying your martial art to your race just makes you a fucking dumbass. It's silly. It's like if I dressed up like a cowboy every time I went out for target practice. And when your skills suck on top of that it makes you a Ronald McDonald level clownfuck.
    But from a marketing point of view...
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. Fuzzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/24/2014 5:12am


     Style: FMA/MMA/HEMA noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    inb4Fake Guys this is MABS not YMAS.

    I realise this guy is claiming his system is only "inspired" by African fighting styles and that he's using FMA techniques, but its worth pointing out that the stuff he's showing looks little to nothing like the real surviving African systems (that I've seen).

    Videos for contrast:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qrVYh7E1k
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf5sbYNM5P0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5-D81ofvo

    Also, does he happen to state what language that title is in? I can probably get someone to check the translation for authenticity if you can find out.
  9. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2014 8:24am


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    inb4Fake Guys this is MABS not YMAS.

    I realise this guy is claiming his system is only "inspired" by African fighting styles and that he's using FMA techniques, but its worth pointing out that the stuff he's showing looks little to nothing like the real surviving African systems (that I've seen).

    Videos for contrast:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qrVYh7E1k
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf5sbYNM5P0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5-D81ofvo

    Also, does he happen to state what language that title is in? I can probably get someone to check the translation for authenticity if you can find out.
    In the description I posted above from his Facebook page, he does claim direct lineage to some sort of African martial art. His own descriptions of his art seem to be contradictory from what I can tell.

    In addition, the taking of one seminar of FMA, combining that with whatever he had done in the past, labeling himself as a 10th degree Grandmaster, etc. is what causes me to suggest Bullshido.
  10. jspeedy is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/24/2014 11:06am


     Style: FMA

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There have gen other guys doing the same thing in the past. One guy master safakhoo repackaged his kung fu as Nabbard, a Persian marital art. There s an Indian guy who claims to teach "Apache knife fighting." To me it's kind of sketchy but as long a they admit it's a reconstructed system based on speculation using educated efforts to reproduce a lost art it may be legit. I look at pankration, bartitsu, or Irish stick fighting as examples. Unless I'm wrong and there has been an unbroken lineage with any of my examples. The problem i see with the afrikan martial arts guy here and what separates him from the more reputable reconstructed arts are: 1) his awarding of his own 10th degree rank 2) how his art was developed, did he research actual African fighting methods? Or is the fact that he is African American his sole claim to call the assert an African American system. I would think a system like 52 blocks would have more of a claim to such a title, but that's another mess.
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