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  1. GreenCross is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2014 3:07pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai & Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    JKD: Should teaching it as a style really be deamonized?

    Firstly, I apologize if this is an inappropriate place for this thread. I figure as Bruce was Chinese and his martial origins come out of a Chinese system (i.e. Wing Chun) that this would be a good place for what I want to discuss.

    I've been a Bruce Lee fanatic all my life, like I know many of you (martial artists) likely are as well. I've read some of his books, seen his movies and tried to absorb his philosophies into my own world view. Lately, I've been doing a lot of thinking about Bruce and what he wanted to accomplish with Jeet Kune Do. Moreover, I have been reading and watching other Martial Artists detracting the legitimacy of JKD as a teachable martial system.

    To be more specific, I've been listening to Freddie, of Freddie's Modern Kung Fu, go on tirade after tirade about how JKD is only a philosophy; that we have to listen to what Bruce says and create our own Martial Art that works for us, that he never intended JKD to be a system because systems are limiting, etc. I've heard these arguments before and I don't necessarily disagree with them. I mean, hell, when I was doing some competitive Kickboxing, I developed my own personal blend of TKD, Muay Thai and Boxing. It's the future of Martial Arts obviously.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4J6wpijN8o



    But, here is a question. If Bruce never meant to teach his version of JKD, then why open up several schools in the first place? Why teach other people? I mean, Bruce, through study and observation hand picked effective techniques from several different martial systems to develop JKD. As far as I could tell, the system he created had a lot of basic principles, and once those were learned, you could evolve it on your own to meet your needs.

    Say what Freddie says is true. That everyone out there trying to teach JKD are just riding Bruce's coattails straight to the bank. Selling a watered down version of JKD to the masses. Say the only way to truly embody JKD is to create your own style....then where the hell do people who have no Martial experience start in the first place? Do we really have to spend years of our lives re-developing the wheel the Bruce already created.

    Freddie also seems to contradict himself with other videos. If we are supposed to create our own style, from scratch, then it's obvious that we need to go to different martial art schools, find what is useful, and discard the rest. But he goes on another video tirade about how you should only stick to one Sifu. How does that make any sense when contrasted with Bruce who was more than willing to learn and train with many different people? (Don't get me wrong, I respect Freddie. I think he has a lot of good things to say. I'm just not sure about his views on JKD)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atLR-3JP5Fg


    So what to you guys think? Is it okay to learn JKD from a Dan Insanto approved instructor? Or do we have to start from scratch? Is JKD a tangible system or is it an intangible philosophy? Because I have no idea where to go with this one.
  2. Mor Sao is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/07/2014 7:58am

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     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bruce Lee is dead, buried and rotten.

    His "kung fu" was not that good or he would be alive today.

    Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, and Chuck Norris outlived him, outkicked and outpounched him.

    Take the absorb was is useful and discard what is not as a good learning modality and go train.







  3. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2014 8:45am

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCross View Post
    I've been a Bruce Lee fanatic all my life
    this is your first problem

    I've been listening to Freddie, of Freddie's Modern Kung Fu
    that's your second problem. try listening to mor sao now.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  4. GreenCross is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2014 11:08am

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     Style: Muay Thai & Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mor Sao View Post
    Bruce Lee is dead, buried and rotten.

    His "kung fu" was not that good or he would be alive today.

    Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, and Chuck Norris outlived him, outkicked and outpounched him.

    Take the absorb was is useful and discard what is not as a good learning modality and go train.
    I really don't think it's a matter of "his Kung Fu" was not good when it comes to Acute Cerebral Edema and an adverse reaction when mixing the compounds of Equagesic, Doloxene and Dilantin. Equagesic was a pain killer he took for a headache he developed at the onset of his Cerebral Edema, and Doloxene and Dilatin were for injuries he sustained during weight training (prescribed). There is no amount of Kung Fu that will save you from adverse chemical reactions in the body or training to hard and becoming injured.

    Also, the only reason Chan, Hung and Norris "outlived, out-kicked and out-punched" Bruce, if we are making a quantitative judgment of the amount of years live, kicks thrown and punches thrown; the average age of the three aforementioned men combined is 65 years old. Bruce was just 32 when he passed away. That means that the three Martial Artists you mentioned had about 33 more years to kick, punch, preform, philosophize and live. So obviously there is going to be a quantitative disproportion in what they were able to accomplish based souley on the fact that they have lived longer. We can't really compare them retrospectively. If we did, it would just lead to conformation bias and fallacy. And once again, their survival through they years of all the random variables that can kill a human, has nothing to do with Kung Fu (I mean, yes martial arts is great for body and soul but...). Bruce died from an unfortunate culmination of variables. The same thing could happen to anybody. In fact, I'm surprised that Sammo Hung is still alive today, considering his obesity.

    Maybe you guy's don't like Bruce Lee. That's totally fine. I completely respect your opinion and respect you as fellow martial artists. I personally think that Bruce was so ahead of his time, that we can still follow his philosophy today. But that's my opinion. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. If I follow his philosophy and get my ass kicked, so be it.
  5. ghost55 is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/07/2014 2:01pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Freddie is one of the dumbest fucks ever to find a webcam and the youtube upload button. Ignore him. My understanding is that there is some good JKD out there, it's just not all that easy to find.
  6. Bneterasedmynam is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2014 2:10pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would say Dan Insanto is probably the only jkd around that isn't ninja worthy. But even then I have only found jkd to be a TKDish at best.
  7. Mor Sao is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/09/2014 8:49am

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     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Green Cross is another deluded person who idolizes a dead person.

    Grow the **** up. Bruce did not invent anything. He was a smart man and cherry picked what he liked.

    Get the **** over him and yourself and train and research on your own.







  8. slamdunc is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/09/2014 9:21am

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     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCross View Post
    JKD: Should teaching it as a style really be deamonized?
    JKD is not a style; it is a philosophy. Bruce Lee was an actor, a philosopher, a choreographer and a martial artist. His philosophy was subjective, as most are. His acting was mediocre at best. It is hard to tell how good his martial arts were since he choreographed all of his own fight scenes to make himself look super-human.

    I respect Bruce Lee for achieving a great degree of personal physical conditioning. He was fit, flexible and very athletic.

    I agree with some of the concepts of JKD; I have to work within my own physical limits. Techniques that would work for a 5'-3" 130# person may not work for me. Techniques that would work for a 6'-5" 320# person may not work for me.
  9. GreenCross is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2014 1:54pm

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     Style: Muay Thai & Tae Kwon Do

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mor Sao View Post
    Green Cross is another deluded person who idolizes a dead person.

    Grow the **** up. Bruce did not invent anything. He was a smart man and cherry picked what he liked.

    Get the **** over him and yourself and train and research on your own.

    Whoa, man. You need to relax.

    I really don't understand the aggression.

    Look, I'm here asking a question. Looking to facilitate discussion, and you are here trying to berate me for trying to pick other peoples brains and try to gain more understanding. I get your point, but if Bruce Lee is an inspiration to me, that's my decision. If that's what keeps me training and searching, that's my decision. Who are you to pass judgment on that? I agree with taking Bruce's modality into mind and that I of course need to go train myself. But I'm just asking for opinions, and I respect yours. But no need to be so abrasive, it's not like I'm insulting your family.

    (Btw, this counts as "doing my own research". I have a degree in the social sciences, collecting an opinion poll or anecdotal information does count as research....not empirical of course, but it helps one gain perspective.

    The Gracies are hero's to some people, maybe Jackie Chan or Chuck Norris are hero's to others. That's fine. All of they are great and also have their limitations. But to call me delusional? Trying to learn more about JKD and determining if there is some legitimate way to learn what Bruce was teaching and add it to my game is far from delusional. If it is a delusion then it's far less delusional than thinking that doing forms all day or being unhealthy and obese is going to help you be a better Martial Artist.

    As for growing up, in the wise words of Ice Cube "You had better check yourself before you wreck yourself".
  10. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/09/2014 9:14pm

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    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tao of Jeet Kune Do was written by Gilbert Johnson, Dan Inosanto, and Bruce's wife...not Bruce Lee.

    It is a set of theories, applied philosophy, like any other. They are the MUSINGS of Bruce Lee, as he took a **** in the morning and wrote stuff in a notebook, etc. Publishing that book was part of Linda's grieving process, even. I'm glad she took the time.

    In that respect JKD is not that much different from Wing Chun. I'm sure Lee spent plenty cold mornings on the john, thinking about Chun, until he started having epiphanies about JKD. JKD is Bruce Lee's eye on the martial arts from the perspective of professional stunt man and martial arts experimenter. So, he deserves credit for his "mix", but to idolize him...no.

    There are so many more awesome Chinese martial artists, real AND fake, to idolize. Some are so fucking legendary that hundreds of movies have been made about them, or people swear they took their broken spear on the battlefield and turned it into the first Chinese death flail.

    JKD has had a hard time proving itself, but this is entirely because its chief protagonist died suddenly, before he could teach many people. JKD is in a way coming out of a recession caused when Lee croaked. Its stock has risen because good people tend to take the training seriously, it's close-knit, and there is some quality assurance in JKD.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 6/09/2014 9:20pm at .

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