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  1. #1

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    takedown defense

    Hey, I have a TKR on my left one, and the right is on the way. I cannot do grappling because of the potential of ruining the knee replacement.I have, and still do train in stand up (Okinawan and small circle) and am reasonably effective on my feet. Was wondering what to do to defend should I find myself in a situation where someone tries to take me down, since I would probably be in trouble once I got there.Thanks

  2. #2

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    - Firstly: I have found that while I wait for surgery on my ACL, ground grappling is the one thing I CAN do without messing up my knee. Knee sleeves, knee pads, and being slightly picky with my training partners is saving my bacon. You may be able to do some Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo, or Sambo (or other alive groundwork) to get better in the event you DO get taken down to the ground. In particular, if your goal is mostly self defense I would focus on escapes and getting back to standing initially.

    - Second: learn to spawl (the best person to work with for that would be a wrestling coach) and maybe some other standing grappling counter-throws etc (wrestling, Judo, Sambo, etc would all have these) if your knees can handle it.

    - Third: if you can't do any grappling at all, then that is unfortunate. Despite what a lot of purely striking arts like to argue (usually the ones that aren't much good in the first place) the best defense against grappling attacks is being a superior grappler.

    I hope that helps!

  3. #3

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    Good points. maybe I am a little paranoid about the knee.
    Perhaps I am not realizing that instructors and training partners could work around my situation.
    Thanks for the input.

  4. #4
    jnp's Avatar
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    The best way to learn how to defend takedowns is to train them in a martial art contains solid takedown techniques. Not surprisingly, the arts that feature highest percentage moves also teach the most effective counters to said moves. For example, the sprawl comes from wrestling. There is no better counter to a fundamentally solid single or double leg takedown attempt than the sprawl.

    Judo, SOMBO (it's an acronym), San Da and wrestling offer proven technical content and are readily available in various locales.

    Edit: What's going to be important for you is to find a place to train where you don't have to deal with people who care more about winning sparring matches than they do about the safety of their training partner. Find a place where you can train safely.
    Last edited by jnp; 5/21/2014 9:38pm at .

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by shieldwolf53 View Post
    Hey, I have a TKR on my left one, and the right is on the way. I cannot do grappling because of the potential of ruining the knee replacement.I have, and still do train in stand up (Okinawan and small circle) and am reasonably effective on my feet. Was wondering what to do to defend should I find myself in a situation where someone tries to take me down, since I would probably be in trouble once I got there.Thanks

    As a fellow striker I have some advice that may be out of the norm. The most common response you'll probably get is to sprawl.

    I will say that from my experience, alive take down training can be very dangerous with knee problems. Isolated and positional drilling is probably better in the grappling regard.

    But aside from learning to wrestle let's take a look at what you can do with your own skillset.

    I've recently had more and more success using striking to keep the person from getting in for a takedown.

    You will always be vulnerable to someone who's willing to take a few punches to bull rush you and spear you into the ground but guys who try to get in close and grab your legs to pick you up and slam you can be stopped.


    What I have found to be useful is avoid using a lot of circular rounded strikes that are easy to duck under and counter. Minimize your hooks and round kicks ect and use mostly straight punches.

    Don't crowd your punches, try to keep them on the end of your range and don't let them get too close.

    Throw more straight punches and use your footwork to keep a nice distance from the opponent.

    Also, mix up the level of your attacks. Every two or three punches throw in a uppercut or low knee or kick into your combo.

    What this has done for me is oftentimes, I don't even see the takedown coming and they will run right into a uppercut or knee strike simple because I was throwing them out there so often.

    This will also make them less likely to shoot if they think they might eat a shot on the way in as opposed to being confident they can duck under a big hook and get in undamaged.

    You'll definitely want to learn a bit of wrestling and practice your defensive grappling, but I don't think that as a karate fighter practicing your striking options to keep a grappler away is a bad choice either.

  6. #6
    <plasma>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    As a fellow striker I have some advice that may be out of the norm. The most common response you'll probably get is to sprawl.

    I will say that from my experience, alive take down training can be very dangerous with knee problems. Isolated and positional drilling is probably better in the grappling regard.

    But aside from learning to wrestle let's take a look at what you can do with your own skillset.

    I've recently had more and more success using striking to keep the person from getting in for a takedown.

    You will always be vulnerable to someone who's willing to take a few punches to bull rush you and spear you into the ground but guys who try to get in close and grab your legs to pick you up and slam you can be stopped.


    What I have found to be useful is avoid using a lot of circular rounded strikes that are easy to duck under and counter. Minimize your hooks and round kicks ect and use mostly straight punches.

    Don't crowd your punches, try to keep them on the end of your range and don't let them get too close.

    Throw more straight punches and use your footwork to keep a nice distance from the opponent.

    Also, mix up the level of your attacks. Every two or three punches throw in a uppercut or low knee or kick into your combo.

    What this has done for me is oftentimes, I don't even see the takedown coming and they will run right into a uppercut or knee strike simple because I was throwing them out there so often.

    This will also make them less likely to shoot if they think they might eat a shot on the way in as opposed to being confident they can duck under a big hook and get in undamaged.

    You'll definitely want to learn a bit of wrestling and practice your defensive grappling, but I don't think that as a karate fighter practicing your striking options to keep a grappler away is a bad choice either.
    Please stay away from giving advise on grappling.

    OP find someone that knows takedowns and not "my buddy wrestled in High School" and drill your sprawls, drill escaping the single, drill pummeling. All can be done at a light speed as not to injure your knee.

  7. #7
    gregaquaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    As a fellow striker I have some advice that may be out of the norm. The most common response you'll probably get is to sprawl.

    I will say that from my experience, alive take down training can be very dangerous with knee problems. Isolated and positional drilling is probably better in the grappling regard.

    But aside from learning to wrestle let's take a look at what you can do with your own skillset.

    I've recently had more and more success using striking to keep the person from getting in for a takedown.

    You will always be vulnerable to someone who's willing to take a few punches to bull rush you and spear you into the ground but guys who try to get in close and grab your legs to pick you up and slam you can be stopped.


    What I have found to be useful is avoid using a lot of circular rounded strikes that are easy to duck under and counter. Minimize your hooks and round kicks ect and use mostly straight punches.

    Don't crowd your punches, try to keep them on the end of your range and don't let them get too close.

    Throw more straight punches and use your footwork to keep a nice distance from the opponent.

    Also, mix up the level of your attacks. Every two or three punches throw in a uppercut or low knee or kick into your combo.

    What this has done for me is oftentimes, I don't even see the takedown coming and they will run right into a uppercut or knee strike simple because I was throwing them out there so often.

    This will also make them less likely to shoot if they think they might eat a shot on the way in as opposed to being confident they can duck under a big hook and get in undamaged.

    You'll definitely want to learn a bit of wrestling and practice your defensive grappling, but I don't think that as a karate fighter practicing your striking options to keep a grappler away is a bad choice either.
    If you are ducking under a straight punch how is that different to going under a circular punch I mean they are the same hight. And you go under them.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  8. #8

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    OP, If your assessment of your knee situation is correct (striking ok; grappling bad) you must AVOID street fights like the plague! Study and enjoy your striking like the great hobby that it is. You already have a realistic outlook on striking and grappling and the need for both in self defense; this puts you ahead of lots of people. As for self defense, improve what you can which is striking.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    If you are ducking under a straight punch how is that different to going under a circular punch I mean they are the same hight. And you go under them.
    You usually have less time to react to straights and they come in at a variety of angles that makes getting under them cleanly more difficult.

  10. #10
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    I'd like to see this takedown defense. Have you considered showing up to a throwdown?

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