Standing small joint manipulation?

[gregaquaman]

Worlds biggest necro I know but I have gone back to full time bouncing and due to rules against hitting hurting and looking at people funny I have started to focus on the standing armlock again.

Normally for the standing resisted rmlocks I think the set ups are all wrong. You really can't just stand in front of the person and start cranking locks on. You will look silly spin around in circles and get hit.

However I am playing around with wrestling pumeling arm isolation those sort of arm pull thingies and gaining the back. So working for the dominant standing position and then firing off the small joint stuff from there.

As a very basic example. Shoot in for the under hook and get head control. Bend the guy over start firing for the hammerlock or any arm behind back. If if fails. then take the back and work from there.

Edit for an idle though. i wonder if I could goosneck a person off a single leg sweep. (wizzer?)

[johnny_cage]

Worlds biggest necro I know but I have gone back to full time bouncing and due to rules against hitting hurting and looking at people funny I have started to focus on the standing armlock again.

Normally for the standing resisted rmlocks I think the set ups are all wrong. You really can't just stand in front of the person and start cranking locks on. You will look silly spin around in circles and get hit.

However I am playing around with wrestling pumeling arm isolation those sort of arm pull thingies and gaining the back. So working for the dominant standing position and then firing off the small joint stuff from there.

As a very basic example. Shoot in for the under hook and get head control. Bend the guy over start firing for the hammerlock or any arm behind back. If if fails. then take the back and work from there.

Edit for an idle though. i wonder if I could goosneck a person off a single leg sweep. (wizzer?)

Have any response to the vid i posted?
Again they are trained this way ONLY because this is the simplest way to understand/memorize the bio-mechanical functions involved.

In regards to your example - "Shoot in for the under hook and get head control. Bend the guy over start firing for the hammerlock or any arm behind back. If if fails. then take the back and work from there." i agree exactly- thats the type of applications that these would be used in practically

[Lampa]

Wow, I first started training for serious a few months after starting that book. 7 plus years of combat sports later, if only I could go back....

I'd tell myself not to flirt with that Deanna girl I was about to meet. I have no regrets about combat sports. Being stupid and talking like you somehow know what you're doing, followed by repeated beatings, is how you learn.

[RurikGreenwulf]

What about the brute small joint manipulation ? like twisting fingers with brute force and trying to tear them?

[gregaquaman]

Have any response to the vid i posted?
Again they are trained this way ONLY because this is the simplest way to understand/memorize the bio-mechanical functions involved.

In regards to your example - "Shoot in for the under hook and get head control. Bend the guy over start firing for the hammerlock or any arm behind back. If if fails. then take the back and work from there." i agree exactly- thats the type of applications that these would be used in practically

Not a huge fan of that method just due to trying standing wristlocks from a fifty fifty position.
I would pretty much train all submissions from the position that I would use them.

That way I would also limit the locks to ones I could do from dominant position. More chance of fighting one on. And better able to train with resistance.

From training the dominant postions I am not hacking out spazzy wristlocks that may fail or break people I have control over the situation.

But as i said at the moment I am more playing with this concept

[johnny_cage]

Not a huge fan of that method just due to trying standing wristlocks from a fifty fifty position.
I would pretty much train all submissions from the position that I would use them.

That way I would also limit the locks to ones I could do from dominant position. More chance of fighting one on. And better able to train with resistance.

From training the dominant postions I am not hacking out spazzy wristlocks that may fail or break people I have control over the situation.

But as i said at the moment I am more playing with this concept

Sorry .. . but you misunderstood me. That is what i meant- You LEARN them this way just because of how much easier it is to learn that way... but TRAIN and PERFORM then as you said; in a dominant position.

(i am in no way suggesting reaching out for someones hand and rolling . . . i am saying LEARN them this way and train by just using one of the applications + your armbar. or + your omaplata.)

[gregaquaman]

Sorry .. . but you misunderstood me. That is what i meant- You LEARN them this way just because of how much easier it is to learn that way... but TRAIN and PERFORM then as you said; in a dominant position.

(i am in no way suggesting reaching out for someones hand and rolling . . . i am saying LEARN them this way and train by just using one of the applications + your armbar. or + your omaplata.)

I wouldnt learn them that way. I would learn them from the position I would use them. Still learn by doing drills with no resistance as a normal submission drill.

I am trying to think of a standard submission that I would learn from a different position that I would apply it and am coming up short.

[PointyShinyBurn]

I am trying to think of a standard submission that I would learn from a different position that I would apply it and am coming up short.

With totally fresh beginners I'd likely show the RNC or chokes from the back on the knees like so:

just to isolate the arm positioning and not worry about hooks etc.

That said, it's not really analogous because the choke does genuinely work from that position, should you find yourself there. What's the point of learning a "principle" for which you don't have any applications? Or wasting cognitive load and training time on memorising the sequence?

[johnny_cage]

With totally fresh beginners I'd likely show the RNC or chokes from the back on the knees like so:

just to isolate the arm positioning and not worry about hooks etc.

That said, it's not really analogous because the choke does genuinely work from that position, should you find yourself there. What's the point of learning a "principle" for which you don't have any applications? Or wasting cognitive load and training time on memorising the sequence?

No i agree. I was just thinking about when i was having difficulty finishing my ambars- i layed on my back in armbar-finishing position and practiced the elements involved (ie pinching knees and pulling toward pinky etc) THEN applied them in drilling.

Similarly to what you said about the choke the small circle is just quickly taught/refreshed standing up so you ma focus only on the principles involved in the wrist elbow hand etc.

THEN the moves are drilled into regular randori. Rather than practicing learning AND teaching them from that position because there are too many small variables such as elbow and shoulder positioning.

I have found that LEARNING them thay way and training them during live drilling (eg when going for omaplata- notice wrist position offers you one of the small circle applications so you use the wrist to help stabalize your omaplata armlock etc)

[YeongJin]

I wouldnt learn them that way. I would learn them from the position I would use them. Still learn by doing drills with no resistance as a normal submission drill.
.

I revamped/updated my entire Hapkido curriculum that I teach based around that idea. It is a much better way to train. In my opinion anyway.