222422 Bullies, 4238 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 60
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 12 3456 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. chaosexmachina is offline
    chaosexmachina's Avatar

    Unexpected Elbow

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,450

    Posted On:
    5/08/2004 5:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quite the imagination there, KI.
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  2. Te No Kage! is offline
    Te No Kage!'s Avatar

    Chemist

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    3,139

    Posted On:
    5/08/2004 6:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why is the wrist/elbow considered small joint? I've never trained to attack fingers or toes in aikido. And I think people generally have the wrong idea when it comes to joint locks. A joint lock is only applied once positional dominance is attained through body movements and strikes. A joint lock is never made to gain positional dominance. And joint locking is only a portion of aikido which also has many throws. But really the majority of joint locks require commitment from the attacker which involves them not letting go. The origin of these (grabs) come from attackers trying to immobolize the drawing hand of the attackee. So if I have a knife in my hand, you don't want to let go because you'll be cut. The same instance goes for my sword-drawing hand, you don't want to let go or else I'll draw my sword and cut you down. But in all probability, a throw is much more likely to occur than a joint lock in real life unless there is real commitment from the attacker. Remember that aikidoka want to get out of the situation as fast as possible and not engage the enemy unless absolutely necessary. The other thing to note is that kuzushi is a cornerstone of aikido and controlling the elbow is usually a means to an end in this regard. If you control the elbows, you control the center. I would like to think that judoka have noticed this as well.
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  3. chaosexmachina is offline
    chaosexmachina's Avatar

    Unexpected Elbow

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,450

    Posted On:
    5/08/2004 6:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Inside control of the arms/elbows is very important for any type of standing grappling.
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  4. chaosexmachina is offline
    chaosexmachina's Avatar

    Unexpected Elbow

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,450

    Posted On:
    5/08/2004 6:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But control of the wait or head is better. lol

    Which is to say that inside control of the elbows is step one.
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  5. Te No Kage! is offline
    Te No Kage!'s Avatar

    Chemist

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    3,139

    Posted On:
    5/08/2004 6:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    in aikido we control the head sometimes, but the waist is hard to control without using brute strength which is something that we try not to do. That's probably one of the big differences between aikido and all other "real" standup grappling systems.
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  6. chaosexmachina is offline
    chaosexmachina's Avatar

    Unexpected Elbow

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,450

    Posted On:
    5/08/2004 6:57pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I wouldn't call it brute strength exactly, but I think it's just the way aikido's philosophy sees certain techniques, so I understand what you are saying.
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  7. Te No Kage! is offline
    Te No Kage!'s Avatar

    Chemist

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    3,139

    Posted On:
    5/08/2004 7:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can understand the popular argument of other the hand striking while trying to apply joint locks. We do in fact take this into account. That's why we try to attain positional dominance prior to joint lock application, to put our opponent in a position where they either can not reach us with a strike or the strike will be weak because of their off-balance. In the case of a sankyo joint lock, if the attacker comes around to strike you with either the other hand or foot they actually apply more pressure to the joint lock. And the pain is really most exquisite. It's very easy to break a wrist. In my training I generally try to employ both hands throwing the second blow after the first to get as much realism as possible. If the correct tai sabaki is employed, the technique "should" work, but it still takes much practice. It is correct that aikido is very hard and challenging. There are easier/quicker ways to self-defence. But that does not mean that aikido techniques do not work, it just means that you have to be good. That's why I practice it, because it's challenging.
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  8. Stick is offline
    Stick's Avatar

    Mostly, I just sit here. Mostly.

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Washington DC. USA
    Posts
    7,952

    Posted On:
    5/08/2004 7:07pm

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my sparring, "small joint" is usually in referance to the wrist, fingers, and toes only; the elbow is by no means a "small joint". Even then, should a omoplata, arm bar, or key/hammer/shoulder lock go wrong we usually switch up to a wrist lock real quick to ensure the tap.

    I think small joint stuff can be a good trick if someone's being a dick, poking you in the chest or something. Personally, I find standing SJM's to be good for show and goofing around, I never bother with them sparring or fighting: bloody unreliable.
  9. xero is offline
    xero's Avatar

    Dirty Red

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Davis, CA/Bay Area
    Posts
    666

    Posted On:
    5/08/2004 7:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Punisher
    I agree with Shooter. For a long time I didn't think a whole lot of SJM, then I went to a Wally Jay Seminar. I wrote about my experience in a couple of theards.

    From http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...threadid=10835


    This thread also has some opions on the subject.
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...&threadid=9703
    Having experiance with Danzan Ryu Ju Jitsu(Wallys jays core art) we worked alot of standing SJM. These locks and holds all have their place and time to be used in a fight. I would say the beginning and the end of a fight is where they work best. Throw a quick wrist lock in during the pushy escalation phase or locking the wrist as extra insult while you have a full on armbar applied. Other than that though during go time of fight you better be boxing/kickboxing/grappling or running. So to sum it all up they have their uses at key times as opposed to aikido where the attempt to use them is all the time.
  10. elipson is offline
    elipson's Avatar

    Ad Hominem rocks.

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    3,476

    Posted On:
    5/08/2004 7:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I work security for rock concerts here in my town, and we use a lot of joint locks to eject ppl. It's a lot better than knocking them out and dragging them outside. That kind of thing causes a lot of problems with liability and Reputation and such. However, we almost never use them when we're alone, and like that one aikido guy said they're to be done with strikes and throws to set them up. Personally, if someone was swinging away at me, I would knock his ass down. Once he's down, I would use locks to restrain him until police came. If someone is already throwing at you, joint locks are a moot point, but if someone grabs you before they throw, there's a good opening to use a lock.
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 12 3456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.