Posted On:5/08/2004 5:37pm
Quite the imagination there, KI.
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Posted On:5/08/2004 6:38pm
Why is the wrist/elbow considered small joint? I've never trained to attack fingers or toes in aikido. And I think people generally have the wrong idea when it comes to joint locks. A joint lock is only applied once positional dominance is attained through body movements and strikes. A joint lock is never made to gain positional dominance. And joint locking is only a portion of aikido which also has many throws. But really the majority of joint locks require commitment from the attacker which involves them not letting go. The origin of these (grabs) come from attackers trying to immobolize the drawing hand of the attackee. So if I have a knife in my hand, you don't want to let go because you'll be cut. The same instance goes for my sword-drawing hand, you don't want to let go or else I'll draw my sword and cut you down. But in all probability, a throw is much more likely to occur than a joint lock in real life unless there is real commitment from the attacker. Remember that aikidoka want to get out of the situation as fast as possible and not engage the enemy unless absolutely necessary. The other thing to note is that kuzushi is a cornerstone of aikido and controlling the elbow is usually a means to an end in this regard. If you control the elbows, you control the center. I would like to think that judoka have noticed this as well.
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Posted On:5/08/2004 6:40pm
Inside control of the arms/elbows is very important for any type of standing grappling.
Posted On:5/08/2004 6:42pm
But control of the wait or head is better. lol
Which is to say that inside control of the elbows is step one.
Posted On:5/08/2004 6:52pm
in aikido we control the head sometimes, but the waist is hard to control without using brute strength which is something that we try not to do. That's probably one of the big differences between aikido and all other "real" standup grappling systems.
Posted On:5/08/2004 6:57pm
Well I wouldn't call it brute strength exactly, but I think it's just the way aikido's philosophy sees certain techniques, so I understand what you are saying.
Posted On:5/08/2004 7:01pm
I can understand the popular argument of other the hand striking while trying to apply joint locks. We do in fact take this into account. That's why we try to attain positional dominance prior to joint lock application, to put our opponent in a position where they either can not reach us with a strike or the strike will be weak because of their off-balance. In the case of a sankyo joint lock, if the attacker comes around to strike you with either the other hand or foot they actually apply more pressure to the joint lock. And the pain is really most exquisite. It's very easy to break a wrist. In my training I generally try to employ both hands throwing the second blow after the first to get as much realism as possible. If the correct tai sabaki is employed, the technique "should" work, but it still takes much practice. It is correct that aikido is very hard and challenging. There are easier/quicker ways to self-defence. But that does not mean that aikido techniques do not work, it just means that you have to be good. That's why I practice it, because it's challenging.
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Posted On:5/08/2004 7:07pm
In my sparring, "small joint" is usually in referance to the wrist, fingers, and toes only; the elbow is by no means a "small joint". Even then, should a omoplata, arm bar, or key/hammer/shoulder lock go wrong we usually switch up to a wrist lock real quick to ensure the tap.
I think small joint stuff can be a good trick if someone's being a dick, poking you in the chest or something. Personally, I find standing SJM's to be good for show and goofing around, I never bother with them sparring or fighting: bloody unreliable.
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Posted On:5/08/2004 7:15pm
Originally posted by Punisher
I agree with Shooter. For a long time I didn't think a whole lot of SJM, then I went to a Wally Jay Seminar. I wrote about my experience in a couple of theards.
This thread also has some opions on the subject.
Having experiance with Danzan Ryu Ju Jitsu(Wallys jays core art) we worked alot of standing SJM. These locks and holds all have their place and time to be used in a fight. I would say the beginning and the end of a fight is where they work best. Throw a quick wrist lock in during the pushy escalation phase or locking the wrist as extra insult while you have a full on armbar applied. Other than that though during go time of fight you better be boxing/kickboxing/grappling or running. So to sum it all up they have their uses at key times as opposed to aikido where the attempt to use them is all the time.
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I work security for rock concerts here in my town, and we use a lot of joint locks to eject ppl. It's a lot better than knocking them out and dragging them outside. That kind of thing causes a lot of problems with liability and Reputation and such. However, we almost never use them when we're alone, and like that one aikido guy said they're to be done with strikes and throws to set them up. Personally, if someone was swinging away at me, I would knock his ass down. Once he's down, I would use locks to restrain him until police came. If someone is already throwing at you, joint locks are a moot point, but if someone grabs you before they throw, there's a good opening to use a lock.
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