228359 Bullies, 4390 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 36
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 12 34 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    4,773

    Posted On:
    5/05/2014 7:22pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Krijgsman View Post
    I hear you. I think the BJJ examples are a good "live" implementation of the kata technique (most of the BJJ self defense stuff I have seen is very similar to Judo's self defense kata). I have done the judo version with a pretty serious amount of resistance and it does work if you time it right. The reality is if you are being pulled backwards really hard with a choke you are in deep **** already.
    Exactly...

    If you get dragged backwards and your posture is broken, it will be very difficult to escape the choke unless the attacker makes a fairly big mistake. If the choke is on tight and done well, you will be asleep very quickly. The key is to react quickly to the initial attack. It will take a lot of serious drilling from the escapes to full on attack scenarios to be able to get away, if at all.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. Milk_ is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Kenya, Nairobi
    Posts
    150

    Posted On:
    5/05/2014 7:37pm


     Style: Aikido, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Exactly...

    If you get dragged backwards and your posture is broken, it will be very difficult to escape the choke unless the attacker makes a fairly big mistake. If the choke is on tight and done well, you will be asleep very quickly. The key is to react quickly to the initial attack. It will take a lot of serious drilling from the escapes to full on attack scenarios to be able to get away, if at all.
    True, generally, I've been able to regain my posture by hooking a leg and bending my knees. But they don't do a proper RNC here, it could take a minimum of 10 seconds to pass out, they try to crush the Adam's apple rather then put you to sleep, so there is a little good news there; at least you won't be out cold in under 5 seconds.

    So they slam on a straight (inner forearm bone, one that runs alongside the thumb) RNC, crank it by settling then choking hand into the other arm's inner elbow, then placing that arm behind their head. They also pull you backwards while doing this, the pain if awful and that adam's apple crush can leave you with red eyes for nearly two weeks. But...it doesn't put you to sleep very quickly, hooking you leg, bending you knees all helps in maintaining posture. It's the escape that's an issue at this point, for me at least.
  3. Krijgsman is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    577

    Posted On:
    5/05/2014 7:40pm


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Milk_ View Post
    BJJ and Judo are essentially the same art, except some guy from a country that's into nuts and hot babes decided he wanted to do Judo on his ass. His name Hello, Heel o or some **** like that, idk. *nods head wisely*

    But on a serious note, BJJ standing defense is essentially the same as Judo's and Aikdio is sort of a distant cousin to both -- in terms of certain techniques. Now while that kata does work under pressure, there's a difference between dojo pressure and street pressure. Dojo pressure is tough but it's controlled, in the street the choke slams on tight and they drag you backwards at the same time, they actually sacrifice an effective RNC just to break posture, some add their body weight to the whole ordeal.

    In essence, getting out of a "deep **** already" choke is kind of what I'm looking for, since the transition from "deep" to "deep ****" chokes happens pretty much instantly over here.
    I would say practice all the defenses we have mentioned here with pretty high resistance and try to build a sensitivity to the initial moment where someone starts to clap the choke on. Once the choke is sunk in there is only so much you can do (as BKR confirmed: he is more qualified to argue this than me). Get your hands defending the choking arm and start fighting the grips I guess. I imagine that, especially if your attacker is reinforcing their choke with a metal bar, you only have a few seconds before you are out.

    It is kind of like knife defense: how do you defend against a stealthy knife attack you don't see coming? Well, you can drill the defenses that you know work but if you get surprise attacked with a knife you are in deep waters.
  4. Milk_ is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Kenya, Nairobi
    Posts
    150

    Posted On:
    5/05/2014 7:50pm


     Style: Aikido, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Krijgsman View Post
    I would say practice all the defenses we have mentioned here with pretty high resistance and try to build a sensitivity to the initial moment where someone starts to clap the choke on. Once the choke is sunk in there is only so much you can do (as BKR confirmed: he is more qualified to argue this than me). Get your hands defending the choking arm and start fighting the grips I guess. I imagine that, especially if your attacker is reinforcing their choke with a metal bar, you only have a few seconds before you are out.

    It is kind of like knife defense: how do you defend against a stealthy knife attack you don't see coming? Well, you can drill the defenses that you know work but if you get surprise attacked with a knife you are in deep waters.
    All very true, my actual sensitivity to choke attempts is decent, I mostly look down when walking (out of habit, used to trip over stuff a lot as a kid) so clamping my chin down is a micro-second deal. We're doing a sort of Dog Brothers thing here (I'm trying really hard to get members) so we sort of can start drilling these scenarios with more realism. In general, I see that seoinage like throw working out, once a base is regained by bending knees, lowering hips and throwing in some elbow strikes (also keeping AT LEAST one hand near the attacker's forearm elbow area). But yeah, ALL your suggestions will be drilled, fear not.
  5. Milk_ is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Kenya, Nairobi
    Posts
    150

    Posted On:
    5/05/2014 7:53pm


     Style: Aikido, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Want to see vids of the drills if I ever manage to get my friends to choke me? I can YouTube them. It'll add a scholarly flavor to the thread :)
  6. wetware is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    1,129

    Posted On:
    5/05/2014 8:03pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If they're doing an air choke with their forearm the very first thing you should be doing is to dig your chin into their forearm, flex and scrunch/shorten your neck and then turn into the crook of their elbow. This will allow you to get your chin into the opening there.

    While this may seem counter intuitive since the end result is sort of closer to a real RNC than an air choke, you are in fact using space they've left open in order to protect your neck and allow you time to explore escape options. It'll still likely hurt like hell, by the way.
  7. jnp is offline
    jnp's Avatar

    Titanium laced beauty

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    8,237

    Posted On:
    5/05/2014 9:30pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Milk_ View Post
    I don't have a very high opinion of this video. Not because it has outright bad advice, but because the margin for error is so small when using the recommended techniques. If your attacker knows how to properly implement a RNC, neither their groin, nor their eyes will be in the path of an attack. If the attacker's arms are in the proper position, twisting out like he does won't work either.

    The only way the technique presented in the video will work is if, A: your opponent has no idea how to slap on a good RNC, B: you drill these techniques to the point where you can execute them flawlessly and instantly once you feel that initial arm coming across your throat.

    If the bad guy knows what he's doing and gets the second arm secure, the techniques in that video will not work. The Judo/BJJ counter has a larger margin for error even though it's not so flashy.

    Turn toward the choking arm (most people instinctively turn away, this is wrong), grab the choking arm with both hands exactly like the instructor does in the Gracie video, sink hip at the same time then move your hands to attacker's bicep in preparation for seio nage.
  8. DCS is online now
    DCS's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,041

    Posted On:
    5/06/2014 10:13am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Milk_ View Post
    ... See, in Kenya thieves have taken to attaching a piece of metal or flat wood to their inner forearm, and then RNC-ing with full force to the throat. And they drag you backwards while doing it.
    Step 1: Don't panic
    Step 2: Draw big fucking knife
    Step 3: ....
    Step 4: Profit
  9. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    4,773

    Posted On:
    5/06/2014 12:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Milk_ View Post
    True, generally, I've been able to regain my posture by hooking a leg and bending my knees. But they don't do a proper RNC here, it could take a minimum of 10 seconds to pass out, they try to crush the Adam's apple rather then put you to sleep, so there is a little good news there; at least you won't be out cold in under 5 seconds.

    So they slam on a straight (inner forearm bone, one that runs alongside the thumb) RNC, crank it by settling then choking hand into the other arm's inner elbow, then placing that arm behind their head. They also pull you backwards while doing this, the pain if awful and that adam's apple crush can leave you with red eyes for nearly two weeks. But...it doesn't put you to sleep very quickly, hooking you leg, bending you knees all helps in maintaining posture. It's the escape that's an issue at this point, for me at least.
    Tuck your chin and turn you head..that will relieve the pain on your neck. It's going to hurt no matter what you do. The fact that they go for pain instead of choking you out will give you time to fight. If you regain some posture, you should be able to throw them off of you...or slam the guy into something hard and solid to loosen the hold.

    Try avoiding places that are obvious ambush points as well. Think ahead about where you are going, when , and how to get there.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    4,773

    Posted On:
    5/06/2014 12:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Double post...
    Falling for Judo since 1980
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 12 34 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.