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  1. Krijgsman is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2014 10:05am


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiga View Post
    Hi there, here another dutchman. A warning with this stuff; there are a lot of fakers (bullshido warning) and if they are genuine, it's very hard to find those people and being open to actually tell you something of value about it. In Holland there are still some practitioners doing it, some even give demonstrations out in the open.

    Most of the knowledge is still in Indonesia. Some Dutch-indos brought some of the stuff towards Holland and perhaps also to the USA.

    I don't know a lot about it, mainly that it has animistic roots, and that it's not to be played with randomly. It's like playing around with Voodoo. I once heard that William Sanders of Cimande did practice some of that stuff.
    Thanks for the tips! I am being pretty careful with my sources since its an academic paper. Most of what I am using is anthropological-type sources from observing Indonesian practices and that is where my professor encountered Silat as well. Since the class is primarily about Islamic popular piety/folk practices I am really focused on Indonesia itself. You are right that trying to get people willing to talk about the more spiritual side of it is difficult.
  2. reedone816 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2014 1:12pm


     Style: Maenpo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I'm Indonesian, just from what being told there are two separated branch in it.
    First is using djinn to do what you bidding, like invulnerability, attacking/scrying/defending someone in faraway place.
    Second is from unlocking your own Ki to do the same thing.
    Back to using djinn, there are three way to use them:
    - by taking hold your body (kesurupan), you let the djinn to enter your body and let them do silat for you. This is like being called pamacan, where you let tiger djinn to enter your body, or pamonyet for monkey spirit.
    - by entering it to a thing and make it a charm, or weapon, like spear, keris, armor, clothes, pouch. As long as you hold it, it will bring you a certain trait. Like susuk, that will increase your charm, invulnerability, luck, etc.
    - by calling them through certain steps/ritual or tributes (sesajen).

    There are certain events where people do crazy things like being cannibal, eating corpses, taking grave soil, fasting non stop for x days, eating infant, collecting skull, hiking by foot for thousands of miles to meet several person.

    In short it is crazy and not always work, because in the end the cops able to put them behind bars.

    these first have roots in hinduism, you'll find similar art being practiced in other south east asian countries.
    While hindu put the djinn as the deity, islam put the djinn as a lesser being than a human, so they treat them as assistant/slave (khodam).
    Back in mataram kingdom, the king tried to put islam and hindu together and created what is being called kejawen, a believe systems that still exist until now that still believe in animism.

    send using android app
  3. reedone816 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2014 1:04am


     Style: Maenpo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know why my post won't show.
    But I live here and it still many who still practice it.
    Even though the religious leader from islam already put the activity as heretic.
    As for references there were three phd thesis that put paper on silat, one from Australia and two from the Netherland. One recent one is from the netherland and it is about the religious aspect. I once read it in google book, but only a potion of it, since for the full read i need to pay.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
  4. Krijgsman is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2014 2:00am


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by reedone816 View Post
    Well I'm Indonesian, just from what being told there are two separated branch in it.
    First is using djinn to do what you bidding, like invulnerability, attacking/scrying/defending someone in faraway place.
    Second is from unlocking your own Ki to do the same thing.
    Back to using djinn, there are three way to use them:
    - by taking hold your body (kesurupan), you let the djinn to enter your body and let them do silat for you. This is like being called pamacan, where you let tiger djinn to enter your body, or pamonyet for monkey spirit.
    - by entering it to a thing and make it a charm, or weapon, like spear, keris, armor, clothes, pouch. As long as you hold it, it will bring you a certain trait. Like susuk, that will increase your charm, invulnerability, luck, etc.
    - by calling them through certain steps/ritual or tributes (sesajen).

    There are certain events where people do crazy things like being cannibal, eating corpses, taking grave soil, fasting non stop for x days, eating infant, collecting skull, hiking by foot for thousands of miles to meet several person.

    In short it is crazy and not always work, because in the end the cops able to put them behind bars.

    these first have roots in hinduism, you'll find similar art being practiced in other south east asian countries.
    While hindu put the djinn as the deity, islam put the djinn as a lesser being than a human, so they treat them as assistant/slave (khodam).
    Back in mataram kingdom, the king tried to put islam and hindu together and created what is being called kejawen, a believe systems that still exist until now that still believe in animism.

    send using android app
    This is fantastic. Thanks very much for your input!
  5. reedone816 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2014 3:08am


     Style: Maenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Krijgsman View Post
    This is fantastic. Thanks very much for your input!
    glad to be able to help,
    as for thesis, you may look on
    "SENI SILAT HAQQ: A STUDY IN MALAY MYSTICISM" by DOUGLAS STEPHEN FARRER

    and

    "The politics of inner power: the practice of pencak silat in West Java" by Ian Douglas Wilson.

    They mention little about Djinn, but nice view on the mythical believe in non animated object (?animism-dinamism?).

    and this short study "the study of java’s islam ( kejawen )" by Riyadhus Shalihin

    and I suggest you look wikipedia article titled "Kebatinan" (lit. means spirituality).
  6. Tiga is offline

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    Oct 2005
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2014 9:46am


     Style: Pencak Silat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by reedone816 View Post
    As for references there were three phd thesis that put paper on silat, one from Australia and two from the Netherland. One recent one is from the netherland and it is about the religious aspect.
    Hi Reedone, do you happen to know the Name or Number of the thesis in dutch? I'm interested in this as well
  7. reedone816 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2014 3:53pm


     Style: Maenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiga View Post
    Hi Reedone, do you happen to know the Name or Number of the thesis in dutch? I'm interested in this as well
    I would like to apologize, it is my mistake not to check it first.
    In the passing one of my senior said about a dutch came to Java to study for a thesis, haven't been able to confirm the person or whether it was finished/published.
    As for the other I also mistaken D. S. Ferrer book, "Shadows of the Prophet: Martial Arts and Sufi Mysticism" as the thesis.
    Again I apologize...

    And to the OP, you might be interested watching tv show "dua dunia" in youtube.
    The show is still being run in trans7 tv channel. it is consists on putting djinn inside the volunteer so the host can have the conversation and ask about the local legend/fable.
    Of course like any other source it is still need to be dissected between what is that being believed and what is the truth/fact.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
  8. reedone816 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2014 3:04am


     Style: Maenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm... My older post not showing, I
    Guess I need to post it again.
    Another interesting things to read:
    The Politics of Inner Power: The Practice of. Pencak Silat in West Java.
    By. Ian Douglas Wilson.
    Ph.D. Thesis.
    Seni silat haqq: A study in Malay mysticism
    By Douglas Stephen Farrer.
    Ph.D. Thesis.
    Also
    Wikipedia article: Kebatinan.


    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
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