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  1. blackmonk is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/18/2014 9:03am

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     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    hooking/rolling uchi mata w/ questions



    I've been trying to work on uchi mata for a while now, and have never been good at it, although I hit it once or twice a week in randori. Here is a few uchikomi and one nagekomi.

    Since I play lefty, and most of my opponents are right-handed, I've been working on offsides-grip uchi mata, as seen in the video. Here, though, instead of elevating uke onto my hip for a big rise-and-fall, I hook the leg and roll with them. I find this works better on a wider variety of body types. This variety is extremely, extremely common in sambo.

    The kuzushi pushes uke out onto their front corner, rather than up on the toes and forward, like a traditional entry.

    So, two questions: If I want to get a big rise-and-fall, should I pull out more on the kuzushi, instead of pulling to the back pocket after I initiate the throw? What about the position of the reaping leg?

    Also, do you guys feel that my initial step should be deeper, and that I should aim for the far leg? That seems to be the consensus from other players/coaches that I have asked.
  2. Krijgsman is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2014 2:57pm


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is the uchi mata that I pull off most often. Really the only detail that mattered when I was taught it was that cross step (rather than stepping back in a typical Judo box step), which you are already doing.

    The only thing I can think to add for your other questions was that I got hollered at for moving out from my opponent (it would be your right in the video) and that instead I should be getting close (moving to your left) once I have the leg hooked if they are resisting. My thought was to create the big rise and fall by bringing them over my hip, but that was actually counter-productive and I just got in my own way.

    I hope that makes sense and is helpful.
    Last edited by Krijgsman; 4/18/2014 3:00pm at .
  3. blackmonk is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/18/2014 3:25pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krijgsman View Post
    This is the uchi mata that I pull off most often. Really the only detail that mattered when I was taught it was that cross step (rather than stepping back in a typical Judo box step), which you are already doing.

    The only thing I can think to add for your other questions was that I got hollered at for moving out from my opponent (it would be your right in the video) and that instead I should be getting close (moving to your left) once I have the leg hooked if they are resisting. My thought was to create the big rise and fall by bringing them over my hip, but that was actually counter-productive and I just got in my own way.

    I hope that makes sense and is helpful.
    Yeah, of course. I appreciate your input.

    I was already thinking about how I was turning away from uke during the throw, instead of closing the distance some more.
  4. Krijgsman is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2014 3:33pm


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    Yeah, of course. I appreciate your input.

    I was already thinking about how I was turning away from uke during the throw, instead of closing the distance some more.
    I was told to ken-ken hope my way toward uke, if that is any help.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    Yeah, of course. I appreciate your input.

    I was already thinking about how I was turning away from uke during the throw, instead of closing the distance some more.
    I was told to ken-ken hope my way toward uke, if that is any help.
  5. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/18/2014 3:57pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're making three quite major and quite fundamental mistakes. This, however, is not your fault as they're the three biggest and most common mistakes.

    Your three mistakes are:
    Total absence of chest contact
    Applying Kuzushi in the wrong direction
    Incorrect foot placement.

    Let's deal with chest contact first. You have no chest to chest contact with uke as you apply kuzushi and transition into tsukuri/kake (throwing) thus you don't achieve dodome (locking up) of the throw. Not dodome, shimekomu.

    Stills from the video





    It may not seem much, but in Judo terms you could fit the proverbial bus in there.

    Contrast this with Inoue who does the same kenka yotsu entry



    Note the total chest contact, contact from hip to armpit

    And how it continues through tsukuri into kake, ensuring dodome



    Next applying kuzushi in the wrong direction.

    You're breaking uke's balance over his three smallest toes of his furthest foot, when you should be breaking his balance forwards



    You're sending his weight to the red circle



    Inoue, however, breaks uke's balance to the front to the green circle, not the red circle as you're doing





    Foot placement, like your kuzushi, your foot is going in the wrong direction

    Red indicates current incorrect direction, green indicates correct direction



    Contrast with Inoue who steps to the peak of the triangle with his foot pointed in the correct direction



    Note again foot direction as he enters





    Fix those three things and you'll start achieveing the big lift Uchi mata you're looking for.

    I suggest you totally re-position the mat so that it is directly inline with uke to force yourself to do kuzushi in the right direction and get correct foot placement.

    If you want further reading on Oikomi entries I've written about them previously here:
    http://thedifficultway.blogspot.co.u...w-in-half.html
    Last edited by judoka_uk; 4/18/2014 4:13pm at . Reason: Japanese gone to sh*t
  6. blackmonk is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2014 9:20pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Worked on it a little bit today. I was able to get a few HUGE ones, but was having a degree of trouble getting chest contact.

    Gonna toy with that aspect some more.
  7. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/20/2014 3:36pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    Worked on it a little bit today. I was able to get a few HUGE ones
    Was that due to fixing your kuzushi and foot direction or was it just a good session?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    but was having a degree of trouble getting chest contact.

    Gonna toy with that aspect some more.
    Getting the chest contact is the hardest part.

    Re-reading your original post, you say you've struggled with standard Uchi Mata. This is most likely because you're also not getting chest contact there, presumably because no one's told you to or highlighted it to you before? I'm not saying that to impugn your coaches it's may be it's so basic to them or so ingrained in muscle memory they do it without realising and so don't stress it when teaching.

    Trying to get the difficult chest contact whilst doing the entry from kenka yotsu is probably setting yourself an uneccessary high bar to clear.

    I'd suggest going back to the standard ai-yotsu uchi mata and just drilling getting that chest contact.

    I would do that by just doing several standard uchi komi focussing on getting good clean kuzushi and ensuring the chest contact by bringing uke's chest to your chest. Don't try and get the contact by bringing your chest to theirs as this will un-do your own kuzushi.

    Then when you're feeling like you've gotten that into a groove add in just lifting uke slightly off the ground you don't want them to be more than a few inches off the mat. When you do this you'll need to lift with your hips and your legs not with your arms. Your entry leg, which for you will be your left, and your hips should do all of the work.
    If you find yourself lifting with your arms, stop. Take a break go back to just doing the uchikomi and getting the chest contact then re-try getting the elevation. If you've got the chest contact lifting with the legs and hips shouldn't be hard as their load is distributed across your torso, if the contact isnt't their or you lose it, that's when you'll feel the need to compensate with your arms and shoulders.

    When you lift, ensure that you don't over rotate your chest. To do this don't let your head drop or turn it so that it is more than 90 degrees from uke's chest. It will help if you have a mirror or a mate who can spot for you and yell at you if you turn your head to far round or start to drop it.

    Practice this slowly and smoothly, don't rush into it, slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

    Once you're starting to feel comfortable with it, I'd recommend taking a little break and then if you're partner isn't fed up to the back teeth with you, doing some slow and smooth static Uchi mata nagekomi focussing on the chest contact and pausing the head turn until you've got that initial lift and ensured the chest contact is still there.
  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/20/2014 3:49pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The headturn bit probably isn't very clear, for clarity this is what I mean by don't turn it beyond 90 degrees from uke's chest.



    Also the head drop may not be clear, that doesn't mean your head has to stay 90 degrees from the mat, rather that it shouldn't drop below the line your own body like so:





    His head isn't totally erect, but because it is line with his hips he retains good body posture and thus is able to lift uke with their load spread across his chest.

    The headturn bit probably isn't very clear, for clarity this is what I mean by don't turn it beyond 90 degrees from uke's chest.



    Also the head drop may not be clear, that doesn't mean you're head has to stay 90 degrees from the mat, rather that it shouldn't drop below the line your own body like so:





    His head isn't totally erect, but because it is line with his hips he retains good body posture and thus is able to lift uke with their load spread across his chest.
  9. blackmonk is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/20/2014 5:31pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not particularly good at it because I haven't worked on it much. Other throws were more immediately effective for me, so I used them, as immediate applicability was needed (I compete all the time). So it just fell to the wayside.

    The better, bigger throws I got at practice came from consciously steering uke between my lapel and sleeve grips. We did both the traditional pulls, and the more Russian-style back-pocket kuzushi, seeing what worked better. It didn't seem to matter as much as entering deeply enough to truly off-balance uke, and sort of displace his position on the mat (which I suppose is what chest contact does, in praxis).
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/20/2014 6:29pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    I'm not particularly good at it because I haven't worked on it much. Other throws were more immediately effective for me, so I used them, as immediate applicability was needed (I compete all the time). So it just fell to the wayside.

    The better, bigger throws I got at practice came from consciously steering uke between my lapel and sleeve grips. We did both the traditional pulls, and the more Russian-style back-pocket kuzushi, seeing what worked better. It didn't seem to matter as much as entering deeply enough to truly off-balance uke, and sort of displace his position on the mat (which I suppose is what chest contact does, in praxis).
    Ok, but as you haven't responded to any of my actual questions or suggestions it isn't possible for me to offer further advice.
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