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  1. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 9:50pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I'm thinking he's not that good of a striker. Open your eyes, dude. He's just not.
    He throws combos, mixes up high/low, has heavy hands, and good footwork/angles/head movement. I think he's a very good mma striker. Point out a specific failing or incident beyond your waaambulance bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    When he gets his ass beat I'm going to laugh at you for your adoring, over-the-top fanboyism the way I laughed at you when you thought Overroids was the **** and super strong because of all the horse meat he ate.
    I liked Overeem b/c of K1 carry over fandom. Fedor was, and still is my all time fav. fighter, and the greatest to thus far have graced the game IMO.

    You know why there's some hype around DC? Unbeaten former Olympian who hasn't dropped a round, or been taken down, or knocked down, even after facing 4 top ten heavyweights. That's some real ****, there.

    Can you find another HW or LHW who's done this? If you can, there'll be plenty of hype there also.
  2. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 10:16pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    He throws combos, mixes up high/low, has heavy hands, and good footwork/angles/head movement. I think he's a very good mma striker. Point out a specific failing or incident beyond your waaambulance bit.

    I liked Overeem b/c of K1 carry over fandom. Fedor was, and still is my all time fav. fighter, and the greatest to thus far have graced the game IMO.

    You know why there's some hype around DC? Unbeaten former Olympian who hasn't dropped a round, or been taken down, or knocked down, even after facing 4 top ten heavyweights. That's some real ****, there.

    Can you find another HW or LHW who's done this? If you can, there'll be plenty of hype there also.

    Cormier looks like he's punching underwater. The only serious contenders he's ever faced were Barnett and Silva, and that's being generous. Silva has won two of his last six fights and he caught Barnett at the beginning of what will be his career-end skid. Barnett hasn't had a quality win since 2011. The four top 10 fighters you referenced also includes Frank Mir who's been a has-been for a long time and Roy Nelson, a perennial gatekeeper.

    Cormier has received more unearned hype with weak competition than anyone in MMA, except for maybe Ronda Rousey. That doesn't mean he isn't good and it doesn't mean Rousey isn't good. But neither of them have faced the type of competition they need to face to earn a spot among the list of the sport's great fighters. Cormier is still relatively unproven at the highest level.

    Enough of the bullshit about him not being taken down, lost a round, whatever. Get fucking real. Cormier's level of competition thus far isn't even in the same ballpark as Jon Jones. It's not even close. Take a look at Jones' record and get back to me.

    I hated that the Cormier/Evans fight didn't happen. I'm pretty confident Evans would've knocked him out. WAY better striker than Cormier.
  3. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 10:34pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Can you find another HW or LHW who's done this? If you can, there'll be plenty of hype there also.
    If I remember correctly Lyoto Machida had similar streak. I think he lost his first round during the 1st Shogun fight. Also Jones has decisively beat multiple great fighters. DC is showing some really good stuff but you are a bit ahead of things here.



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  4. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 11:18pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Enough of the bullshit about him not being taken down, lost a round, whatever. Get fucking real.
    That's not an indication of dominance or at least massive potential to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Cormier's level of competition thus far isn't even in the same ballpark as Jon Jones. It's not even close. Take a look at Jones' record and get back to me.
    I have. Less dominant names on there than some would imagine.

    Alexander Gustafsson, Chael Sonnen, Vitor Belfort, Rashad Evans, Machida, Rampage Jackson, Shogun Rua, Ryan Bader, Vladimir Matyushenko, Brandon Vera, Matt Hamill (loss), Jake O'Brien, Stephan Bonnar, Andre Gusmao, Moyses Gabin, Parker Porter, Ryan Verrett, Anthony Pina, Carlos Eduardo, Brad Bernard

    Jones has been very effective, but your willpower alone can't make most of those guys into heavy duty or prime of their career opponents after the fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I hated that the Cormier/Evans fight didn't happen. I'm pretty confident Evans would've knocked him out. WAY better striker than Cormier.
    Well luckily for DC, they weren't going to box. In mma, DC has the tools to tool Rashad, including heavier hands.
  5. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 11:30pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Jones has decisively beat multiple great fighters.
    He has, and has the p4p ranking to show for it. Is everyone not Jones hopeless? Nope.

    If DC has been sparring with Cain for many moons, and is accustomed to that level of epic strength and athleticism can Jones present him with challenges (reach and some unorthodox striking) that will compensate for the strength, power, and center of gravity usage advantages DC has shown over his opponents.

    Can Jones greco nullify Cormier in the clinch? I don't see that. Seeing a guy as strong as Roy Nelson just helpless in those situations is a good indicator of the power/technique involved.

    If Jones is going to stand and pepper, he'll need to dodge an awful lot of mobile firepower (DC has a great three strike gliding combo ending with a hook that he's landed on several opponents to great effect, one example of a chin jarring move that's IMO beyond Jones' capacity to withstand).

    DC doesn't have a neck to sub, so that certainly removes tools. The wrestling base will make fell-and-cut-with-elbows extremely unlikely.

    What tools are there for Jones?
  6. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 8:05am

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    That's not an indication of dominance or at least massive potential to you?
    I have. Less dominant names on there than some would imagine.

    Alexander Gustafsson, Chael Sonnen, Vitor Belfort, Rashad Evans, Machida, Rampage Jackson, Shogun Rua, Ryan Bader, Vladimir Matyushenko, Brandon Vera, Matt Hamill (loss), Jake O'Brien, Stephan Bonnar, Andre Gusmao, Moyses Gabin, Parker Porter, Ryan Verrett, Anthony Pina, Carlos Eduardo, Brad Bernard

    Jones has been very effective, but your willpower alone can't make most of those guys into heavy duty or prime of their career opponents after the fact.
    Well luckily for DC, they weren't going to box. In mma, DC has the tools to tool Rashad, including heavier hands.

    No, it's not an indication of dominance because he hasn't done it against top notch competition. To your question of potential....I think Cormier was showing a ton of potential in Strikeforce. Unrealized potential, but lots of potential nonetheless. Since they put him in the UFC they've done absolutely nothing with him, so we really don't know how he stacks up against the best. It's not his fault. It's the promotion's fault.

    I really can't fathom how in the same thread you will sit there and try to simultaneously argue that Cormier has fought great competition and Jones has fought weak competition. Does not compute. You're delusional, Baby Ninja.
  7. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 8:19am

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    He has, and has the p4p ranking to show for it. Is everyone not Jones hopeless? Nope.

    If DC has been sparring with Cain for many moons, and is accustomed to that level of epic strength and athleticism can Jones present him with challenges (reach and some unorthodox striking) that will compensate for the strength, power, and center of gravity usage advantages DC has shown over his opponents.

    Can Jones greco nullify Cormier in the clinch? I don't see that. Seeing a guy as strong as Roy Nelson just helpless in those situations is a good indicator of the power/technique involved.

    If Jones is going to stand and pepper, he'll need to dodge an awful lot of mobile firepower (DC has a great three strike gliding combo ending with a hook that he's landed on several opponents to great effect, one example of a chin jarring move that's IMO beyond Jones' capacity to withstand).

    DC doesn't have a neck to sub, so that certainly removes tools. The wrestling base will make fell-and-cut-with-elbows extremely unlikely.

    What tools are there for Jones?

    We have no idea how his sparring with Cain goes. He could be Cain's personal fucking punching bag for all we know. Do you think they're going to speak honestly about any weaknesses that are apparent in the gym?

    I'm going to go on record right now that if Cormier fights Jones, Jones will show him zero respect as far as his striking goes. Jones will have to worry about getting trapped against the cage, but as long as they're in the center of the cage and not in the clinch, Jones will make Cormier look silly with his striking.

    You're really stretching with your efforts to make Cormier look unbeatable. No neck to sub? Puhleeeease. Come on, bro. And it's extremely presumptious to assume Cormier won't end up on his back eating elbows. Do I expect Jones to take him down? Nope. But he could easily end up on his back from a knockdown and once there, Jones would have no reason not to follow him.
  8. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 10:47pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I really can't fathom how in the same thread you will sit there and try to simultaneously argue that Cormier has fought great competition and Jones has fought weak competition. Does not compute. You're delusional, Baby Ninja.
    Four top ten heavyweights is nothing to sniff at. Jones' competition has been varied, if you look at the list. Cormier has fought pretty good competition and schooled them all. He should be in title contention for sure at LHW. He's not moving up unproven, he's beaten up bigger men, and now trimmed down to beat up smaller men.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    We have no idea how his sparring with Cain goes. He could be Cain's personal fucking punching bag for all we know. Do you think they're going to speak honestly about any weaknesses that are apparent in the gym?
    I doubt he's Cains wrestling coach out of a sense of charity. The guy is legit, to the most legit...that should tell you something. As to their sparring, they've both indicated that their sparring is the height of competitiveness. I don't have a reason to doubt either of them.
  9. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 10:51pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    we really don't know how he stacks up against the best.
    He would already have fought Cain by now, if he was going to. That guy is the best. Jones is another of the very best, and in his new weight class, he wants to fight him. He was #3 at HW or something. He didn't lose and move down to regain lost momentum. He just doesn't want to fight his friend/student.

    Anything can happen in a fight, but I personally have DC as a favorite over anyone not named Cain V.
  10. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 11:44pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

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    What do you mean by Jones competition has been varied? Compared to what? The depth in LHW as Jones has ascended has been phenomenal. What is missing from Jones resume?


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