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  1. blackmonk is online now
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 9:03am

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     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We typically go from grip to submission or pin in a progression, taught as one technique. I don't often "teach" a throw or submission, as much as teach the pathway to get there, especially for beginners. I find that if I teach them how to wrestle/throw first, then they are several steps ahead of their peers in other grappling sports during randori.

    We do grip and movement drills for almost half of every class, followed by grip/movement into a throw of their choice, followed by newaza. We teach very few throws at my gym, and focus more on having everyone specialize in two or so techniques, three max. The results have been good. Our best young player just won the Belgian Sambo Open a couple of weeks ago, and his harai is easily well-above typical black belt level. He's done so many reps of that throw that he does it mindlessly.
  2. blackmonk is online now
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 9:20am

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     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In essence, we basically have a 2-hour, very controlled sparring session that covers one pathway or technique.
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
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    There's not enough words to describe my existence.

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 9:54am

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     Style: No Style

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The best approach I've seen as a student is one part of the class spent on rehashing basics, one part spent on something new, which itself should be built in a progressive format. In shorter (<=60m) classes the compression is higher so the pace should be much faster, but controlled.

    Ignoring training the basics is self-defeat, imo, so at least some part of the class should be about rehearsing basics, no matter how boring you think they are. This is why I don't prefer classes that include just straight up cardio for warmups...I could do that stuff before class, really. Kung fu warmups can be nice if they integrate basic technique elements into the warmup. BJJ class is the same way, the cardio IS the technique. The technique IS the cardio. This is what's best in life.

    As far as learning new techniques, an instructor that really impresses on me is the one that teaches a single application in a chain of parts, has you practice the parts individually paying special attention to the little details, and then shows you how to put them together and practice the whole with a partner within a very short window, fixing your mistakes as necessary.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 4/07/2014 9:59am at .
  4. daishi is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 10:30am


     Style: Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well it's a difference of coaching for competition and training traditionally. Depends on your goal, one is no better than the other.
  5. Krijgsman is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 7:31pm


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My coaches tend to focus on one technique and then a few variations off of that technique - say a combo of throws or a submission or pin that is easy to transition to. For instance this past Saturday we went over arm drags and then did a body lock take-down and an arm throw take-down off of that arm drag. It leaves enough time in practice to do warm-ups, focus on a technique, and still get plenty of sparring/randori in as well.
  6. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2014 8:41pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Yeah, I'm not criticising anyone here. The guy teaches a good class, I'm just looking to see if we can stream line it a bit.

    One issue we have is that due to budget, availability of facilities, and our coach's own schedule, we can only get him in twice a week. So he has to cover a lot in the time he's here. This is compounded by the fact that as a university club we get a very big spread in ability form our new members. Each year we'll have a bunch of Irish guys who have never trained before, and good few French/German/Eastern European guys who have been doing judo or wrestling since they could walk. If we had more coaching time we could split the classes, but that isn't an option at the moment. This means the coach feels he has to cover absolute basics right up to advanced stuff every class to keep everyone happy.

    I think I'm going to propose a bit of an experiment to him for the first term of the next academic year when we get a new bunch of students. We pick some basic, basic curriculum. Something like one forward throw, one backward throw, a combination using these throws, the main pins and their escapes and a turtle turn-over. We concentrate on teaching those to the beginners and we give the advanced students some space to do their own thing (within reason).
    I had the same issues when I was running a university Judo club (club sport, not varsity). As we only have one senior class, I still have to deal with it now.

    Your idea to split the class up is good, and typical solution, especially if the more advanced guys need much less or little to no instruction. He could peel off a more advanced student to watch over the newbies for a while while he works with the more advanced a bit, then switch back.

    It's a juggling act, but possible to do. Not optimal, though, unless the more advanced guys don't need a lot of direction.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2014 8:48pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Kendo has the advantage of a very small curriculum that lets us focus on basics. Even so I think most judo instructors would be shocked at how much of a focus it is. We bring in a high level instructor for our annual seminar and switch guys every couple of years. I can't think of one of them that did not emphasize basics, some of them only covered basics.
    Judo somehow got away from that, in the west at least. However, I'm not sure how judo was taught in Japan say, pre-WW2, or even pre-"sportification" (more when it was just Kito Ryu essentially). Hence I don't have the historical perspective.

    I think if you break judo down, the basics are fairly simple. More difficult or broader (?)l in some ways than Kendo, perhaps, because Judo requires grappling type contact.

    Watching the provincials (jr), I could clearly see which judoka had somehow absorbed and applied basics, usually they were sankyu and up with a couple of gokyu who were on the right path.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2014 8:52pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    In essence, we basically have a 2-hour, very controlled sparring session that covers one pathway or technique.
    That would be typical of my more advanced classes, although I use the same principle/concept at all levels. Over the years what I've observed that many people can do static throws, but few can apply anything well in a fully "alive" situation. Hence I've focused a lot more on process and less on teaching a bunch of techniques. It works, but doesn't necessarily result in "classical" looking judoka. I told my guys that they would look like **** doing static uchikomi, but would be able to throw moving/gripping and transition to ne waza very well.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2014 8:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by daishi View Post
    Well it's a difference of coaching for competition and training traditionally. Depends on your goal, one is no better than the other.
    I'm not sure what you mean. Training to be effective is just that, regardless of "sport" or "traditional". The same principles/concepts apply. It's all learning...
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. daishi is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2014 9:58pm


     Style: Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. Training to be effective is just that, regardless of "sport" or "traditional". The same principles/concepts apply. It's all learning...
    I mean training to your strengths and training for opponents weaknesses vice just training for a prescribed curriculum.

    I would assume most schools "just train" until event time approaches then focus for that event. But I've seen guys kind of blow off a lot of things because they find no value in it for themselves in competition. I'm not saying one is better than another, just pointing out the different mentalities I've seen. Sometimes that sport centric mentality can lead to a degradation of some curriculum, but if everyone's cool with that, then it doesn't really matter.
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