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  1. CrackFox is offline
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2014 7:07pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    How much material do you cover in a class

    Hey guys, I just wanted to get some feedback from everyone on how much stuff you cover in a single technique based class. Let's just put squad sessions, open mats, or private classes, etc. to the side for the moment. I'm talking about the kind of classes where you have a mix of people, beginners and not-so-beginners, and the instructor is telling you how to do stuff. How much stuff does he/she tell you how to do?

    At my current main club, our instructor can sometimes cover a lot of different things in one session. I sometimes find it hard to follow it all. I wonder how well the beginners manage to take everything in. We did an anonymous web based survey to see how people found the classes, and a lot of people mentioned the pacing of the class being a problem. They weren't very specific, but I suspect that there is a bit of a hit from spending so much time explaining stuff and not enough actually doing it. That said, he's the coach and I assume he knows a bit more about coaching than I do.

    When I think back to my last club, the way I remember it, we would cover a lot less stuff in a single class. Typically one newaza technique and two throws. Also, instead of giving the instruction in one big blast, the coach would give a broad outline of it, let you practice for a few minutes, and then she would give a more detailed explanation once everyone had tried it a few times and had a bit of an idea what was going on. The classes were a lot more consistent as well - I think I could have done everything outside of the instruction part blindfolded as it was the same every class. Like it was always the same warm up, then x minutes of doing newaza, y minutes of tachi, z of radori. My current place is much more random - we might do loads of newaza one day, or loads of nagikomi, or whatever.

    Sometimes I go training BJJ in an SBG place nearby, and occasionally at a Drysdale affiliate. In both those places I think they teach one or two main things per class with a follow up technique. I quite like this, it's easy to digest - though I do feel that our need to do both stand up grappling an ground based stuff means we have to cover more each class, or risk people feeling they are missing out on stuff.

    Then there is my coach's buddy who runs one of the most competitive judo clubs in the country. I go there, and I don't even really notice that he is actually coaching anything in particular. He just kind of tells everyone to go off and practice some stuff, and then he might come over and correct you a bit, or the person who your training with and who is liable to have higher rank than the coaches in most clubs will give you some instruction. You learn a lot, but spend very little time stood around listening to someone teaching. Also, he teaches ****-all newaza. Maybe a few rounds of newaza randori, but no instruction at all.

    I'm not really sure where I'm going with this post, but anyway - how much ground do you cover in a typical class? How much depth does your instructor go into?
  2. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2014 11:10pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most instructors spend way too much time explaining things and try to teach too much at once.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2014 11:31pm


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Our judo instructor usually teaches 1 or 2 techniques in a class. I still feel it is too much at times because we will be doing different ones next time. But that's a general criticism I have of Judo Canada's beginner curriculum, too much breadth, not enough depth.

    My own experience in teaching kendo is that newbie instructors cover too much and are too eager to get into complex waza. Basics, first and always.
  4. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2014 11:53pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Our judo instructor usually teaches 1 or 2 techniques in a class. I still feel it is too much at times because we will be doing different ones next time. But that's a general criticism I have of Judo Canada's beginner curriculum, too much breadth, not enough depth.

    My own experience in teaching kendo is that newbie instructors cover too much and are too eager to get into complex waza. Basics, first and always.
    My whole problem with the teaching of Judo in general is it's based too much on learning a smorgasborg of technique and nothing (much) explicitly of kihon.

    I'm at the BC Junior Provincials and my point of view has been born out in spades.

    This not to criticize anyone, most especially not the judoka. It's endemic in Judo.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 6:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I'm not criticising anyone here. The guy teaches a good class, I'm just looking to see if we can stream line it a bit.

    One issue we have is that due to budget, availability of facilities, and our coach's own schedule, we can only get him in twice a week. So he has to cover a lot in the time he's here. This is compounded by the fact that as a university club we get a very big spread in ability form our new members. Each year we'll have a bunch of Irish guys who have never trained before, and good few French/German/Eastern European guys who have been doing judo or wrestling since they could walk. If we had more coaching time we could split the classes, but that isn't an option at the moment. This means the coach feels he has to cover absolute basics right up to advanced stuff every class to keep everyone happy.

    I think I'm going to propose a bit of an experiment to him for the first term of the next academic year when we get a new bunch of students. We pick some basic, basic curriculum. Something like one forward throw, one backward throw, a combination using these throws, the main pins and their escapes and a turtle turn-over. We concentrate on teaching those to the beginners and we give the advanced students some space to do their own thing (within reason).
  6. daishi is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 9:58am


     Style: Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I try to teach in layers: start with demonstrating the technique at full speed a couple times, breakdown the basic movements, observe class, stop and correct any common issues. During training I'll give more details to anyone who appears to be ready for more detail.

    But we have a lot of instructors with their own styles of teaching.

    Last class I had all the senior students teach a technique and had myself, and the junior students, ask them questions about it.

    I'd say we go over more content in a karate class than anything else - every class has drills, usually prearranged sparring, kata, then finish up with free sparring. With an assortment of bag work, weapons, "goshin" type scenarios.

    Aikido class varies the most in content volume and variety of teaching style.

    Judo/jujitsu on Mondays is one or two standing throws, one or two things on the ground (lock, hold down, transition, sweep, etc), then randori for the rest of class, enough so everyone can roll with each other a couple times. Wed class is almost always just ground work, usually BJJ principle that well focus on, maybe two to four techniques, but they are always a theme or build off each other. Again, at least 30 min is dedicated to randori at the end of class
  7. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 9:59pm


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kendo has the advantage of a very small curriculum that lets us focus on basics. Even so I think most judo instructors would be shocked at how much of a focus it is. We bring in a high level instructor for our annual seminar and switch guys every couple of years. I can't think of one of them that did not emphasize basics, some of them only covered basics.
  8. daishi is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 11:02pm


     Style: Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man, I wish we had kendo nearby me. I've heard it's a slow learning process, which I'm cool with.

    Don't you have to learn the setei gata as well?

    Lol, I was just talking about that last part with some friends. We notice at seminars when the 3-4th Dan guys are teaching, it's usually something kind of flashy or "cool," or unique in some way. when the 7th - 8th Dan instructors teach it's almost always something very basic.
  9. DKJr is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 11:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whenever I teach it's same position the whole month, same theme (submission, transition, etc) each week, and 1 technique each day with plenty of detail that is repeated more than once.

    I like to pretend that everyone is retarded and needs it drilled into their heads before they can pick it up. Like everyone else says, instructors feel the need to vomit forth everything they know. Take it slow and they'll pick up positions/techniques faster.
  10. daishi is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2014 12:13am


     Style: Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's good to have a structured system like that.

    What's your opinion on revisiting what you teach, as far as time wise goes? The ubiquitous "they" claim a lot of learning retention happens when you sleep (after the training), kind of like muscle growth and repair. So, in a program structured like yours, what's your dwell/act timeframe for "letting things soak in" then revisiting it to reinforce retention?
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