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  1. JiuJitsuDad is offline

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    Apr 2014
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    Posted On:
    4/04/2014 10:55am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Question for Kids Takedowns

    Hey Fellas (and ladies)! Longtime lurker, first time poster here.

    My ten year old daughter takes BJJ at an Alliance school in the Atlanta area and has been over the last year and half. She really is just now taking off though, as she was taking both Shotokan Karate and BJJ at the same time for a year, but the excess BS of Karate (plus the fact that BJJ is about ten times more practical) forced me to pick the Jitz for her, and she's been getting better every since.

    Here's my question: what is the strategy for dealing with someone who is almost your equal in strength and training, but they refuse to engage and go to the ground? There is another girl in the class who NEVER pulls guard. She waits until her partner pulls guard then just pushes their foot out the way and goes straight into a knee through guard pass.

    So of course, I tell my daughter not to pull guard, but my daughter does attempt to at least go for takedowns, but kids, God bless 'em, have a hard time getting their single and double leg takedowns down pat. I also have her attempting to do a double under wrestling takedown which works on most other kids, and also an over under kinda sorta O-Soto-Gari sweep move that also works with most other kids (when they are looking to engage).

    My daughter has a hard time closing off the space with this other girl because the other girl is simply just pushing away and backing up. I know the easy answer is "keep training the single and double leg" but is there any other option I'm missing?

    It's frustrating taking your kid to BJJ class and the instructor takes the easy route and matches them up the entire time (because they are both girls) and all my daughter's partner does is look to not engage or work the same gimmick over and over.

    Any advice would be appreciated...sorry in advance for my novice knowledge, finances and a bum shoulder dictate that I can't be on the mat as much as the little one.
  2. RynoGreene is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2014 4:42pm


     Style: FMA/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is it stiff arming she can't get past?

    If so, get grips, drive forward, bounce back, then dip under to change levels to go for the single (or body lock, pick, whatever). Basically force a linear response by driving forward, then redirect.
  3. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2014 5:29pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My BJJ knowledge is at a basic level so I am answering from a wrestling background. If leg attacks aren't working, develop some upper body attacks: head and arm throws, arm drag, tying up and throw etc.


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  4. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2014 5:31pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If opponent is backing up, don't go straight circle. Part of the problem is if someone is dedicated to stalling, developing skill level to overcome the stall is sometimes the only answer.


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  5. ghost55 is online now
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    Portland, Oregon
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    Posted On:
    4/04/2014 8:38pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    My BJJ knowledge is at a basic level so I am answering from a wrestling background. If leg attacks aren't working, develop some upper body attacks: head and arm throws, arm drag, tying up and throw etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This. if there is a cheap Judo place nearby she might want to go to it once a week or so for awhile to to learn to good forward throws.
  6. JiuJitsuDad is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2014 12:56am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RynoGreene View Post
    Is it stiff arming she can't get past?

    If so, get grips, drive forward, bounce back, then dip under to change levels to go for the single (or body lock, pick, whatever). Basically force a linear response by driving forward, then redirect.
    Yes sir, it is more of a stiff arm. Since I can't post links yet, if anybody wants to see what I'm talking about, just go to Youtube and enter in "Amelia 4/3/14 BJJ" and the two videos will pop up. My daughter is the one with the black top and pink bottoms.

    The issue with my daughter and changing levels right now is just that she's so upright from having started off with TKD (complete horsecrap) and then Shotokan (her school is actually pretty good for what they do, but the style itself has so many limitations when taught in it's most strict form, stiff, upright fighting being toward the top of the list), not to mention her legs are really long for her body (she's ten and wearing a Vulkan M2 top and some Fuji W1 pants, lol)...so single legs and double legs are tricky, but she's getting better.

    I introduced her to an ankle pick not too long ago, but we haven't repped it anywhere near enough for effectiveness. I'll get back on it.

    That said, how would she even close the distance for the shot when the opponent is simply going to keep backing up?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    My BJJ knowledge is at a basic level so I am answering from a wrestling background. If leg attacks aren't working, develop some upper body attacks: head and arm throws, arm drag, tying up and throw etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That's the thing: my daughter is an arm dragging fool...goes for it multiple times against almost everyone except this partner because this partner will just keep backing up.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    If opponent is backing up, don't go straight circle. Part of the problem is if someone is dedicated to stalling, developing skill level to overcome the stall is sometimes the only answer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think that might just be it. We'll keep working on pummeling and getting underhooks and also changing levels for a shot. I hate to say it but the best move in the meantime might just be for my daughter to just sit down in an open guard (like when they practice guard passing) when rolling with this opponent because stalling when the other kid is pretty damn strong too is hard to get by.

    There's no need for me to even take her to class for a glorified shoving match. They can do that in the backyard.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    This. if there is a cheap Judo place nearby she might want to go to it once a week or so for awhile to to learn to good forward throws.
    Great idea. I wish there was...the problem is the only Judo place is in Midtown Atlanta and I live 17 miles west of the city, and they hold classes at the same time Jiu Jitsu is held. Not to mention the traffic at that time is ridiculous.
  7. daishi is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2014 3:04am


     Style: Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's definitely not exclusive to children's classes.

    Your daughter's training partner sounds like she's being one-note and predictable. You could war game it with your daughter, or ask her teacher, what counters or leads her partner will be susceptible.
  8. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2014 3:43pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Drop knee the double leg. You can go halfway across a room like that.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhitsundayMartialArts
  9. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 11:01am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JiuJitsuDad View Post
    That's the thing: my daughter is an arm dragging fool...goes for it multiple times against almost everyone except this partner because this partner will just keep backing up.
    If she drills the arm drag enough, she should be able to get it as her partner extends the stiff arm from her body. That is, before her opponent's arm touches her.

    Alternatively, as gregaquaman suggested, she can work "penetration step" drills that will increase her range and success rate with single and double leg takedowns. Make sure her chest doesn't extend beyond her knees (no zombie shots meaning bent at the waist while the legs are straight) and that the first step is a fairly big one. Ideally, you step in between your opponent's feet when shooting the double. Here's a video.



    Lastly, have her work on defending the knee slide pass, preferably a technique that transitions to a sweep so she can be on top.
  10. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2014 11:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Because there is that sneaky ankle grab during the double leg that trips people over and is quite funny to do to people. More of a gag. But it does work if the other guy is back pedaling.

    Otherwise we do have guys who drop knee twice getting even more distance. It is designed to get them to half sprawl. But might work here.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhitsundayMartialArts
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