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  1. Chili Pepper is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 9:21am


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    7
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Lawrence View Post
    (why do people always assume that the grappler is the one who is outnumbered?)
    Because we all know grapplers have no social skills. Even other grapplers don't like grapplers.
  2. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 11:20am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    People who don't practice takedown defense against earnest, athletic attempts are the unprepared ones more likely to get kicked in the head or whatever.
  3. Speaks Softly is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:15pm

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     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rener Gracie's take on this:



    Basically, he advocates striking, if you can, going to the ground, briefly, if grabbed, and getting back up on your feet as quickly as possible.
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:24pm

    supporting member
     

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevilboy76 View Post
    Actually, I'm not troping out arguments against grappling in general. I'm pointing out the simple fact that being on the ground in any situation other than a controlled training scenario or a competition is a bad idea.
    Silly argument.

    Violence outside training or competition is a bad idea in general. Standing or on the ground is irrelevant to the "badness". EVERY situation is different. What matters is who gets hurt, and how, and possibly why, if the law becomes involved.

    The general outcomes of violence outside training/comp are: injury, arrest, charges, lawsuit, death. Note these outcomes do NOT necessarily depend on who was the initial aggressor, but who gets hurt, how hurt, who has a better lawyer, etc.

    So, arguing about length of time being on the ground...IF being on the ground makes the fight a) result in less injury and b) ensure a more favorable self defense plea, then so be it. I would personally much rather put someone to sleep in a choke than break their face, or their limbs with strikes, even if I feared for my life, it might lead to a better outcome for me.

    Part of being a martial artist is learning what NOT to do in a violent encounter. That includes busting your enemy's face open at range versus a nice, civilized, "sporting" way of forcing him to submit to your will.

    If you start adding in complicating elements like lava, aids, needles, or groupies...you deserve the YMAS thrashing. It's all theorycrafting.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 3/17/2014 1:38pm at .
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:25pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    6
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaks Softly View Post
    Rener Gracie's take on this:



    Basically, he advocates striking, if you can, going to the ground, briefly, if grabbed, and getting back up on your feet as quickly as possible.
    LOL. Yes, that's pretty much EVERY reasonable person's take on this board and in the grappling community. Still, who cares? See, that's the fallacy everyone tries to raise. No one here said BJJ is invincible on the ground. No one is saying being on the ground is your best bet. No one, minus the logical fallacy laden guy, stated the mount was perfect. We are railing against the bullshit that sport fighting and the ground are kryptonite. Also, the bullshit that you will automatically succumb to multiple attackers when you hit the ground.

    Like multiple attackers hang around, like piranha, waiting for a person to hit the ground.
  6. AKRhino is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:43pm


     Style: Brazillian Jiu Jitsu

    22
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dear OP,

    Thank you for posting such a unique perspective on this subject. Certainly this is the first time this argument has ever been raised here. It's good for us to be able to entertain such reasoned and well thought out discussions so we don't just get stuck debating the same old bs over and over.

    Sincerely,

    Bullshido
  7. Plasma is online now
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    Bullshido Admin

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:48pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevilboy76 View Post
    In the "street" anyone on the ground grappling for too long is going to get a headful of boot.
    Enjoy Prison when you stab someone in "self defense"
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 2:01pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh and let me point out, no DJkr was being sarcastic, I brought up Black homeless for a very simple reason.

    Don't take this as a knock on grappling or bjj specifically. Some of the toughest guys I know are bjj players and grapplers.
    Same silly caveat, except it wasn't about race. I actually laughed because it read exactly like "<insert race based complaint>, but It's okay I have black friends."
  9. wetware is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 2:03pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    How about sex? Surely uncontrolled sex on the floor can be a good idea, outside of training and competition of course.
    I think you are misunderstanding the divide between sport fucking and serious fucking in the street. In sport fucking there's rules to keep everyone safe. In serious fucking on the street multiple participants are a real danger. As a result you should not roll around on the ground.
  10. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 2:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevilboy76 View Post
    Actually, I'm not troping out arguments against grappling in general. I'm pointing out the simple fact that being on the ground in any situation other than a controlled training scenario or a competition is a bad idea.
    ANY situation? You can't fathom a single situation out in the REAL WORLD where being on the ground is okay? The real world is full of all sorts of situations that aren't draw-your-weapon-and-murder-spree affairs.
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