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  1. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 12:38am

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevilboy76 View Post
    I'm pointing out the simple fact that being on the ground in any situation other than a controlled training scenario or a competition is a bad idea.
    Really ANY situation you say? I can think of plenty of situations where having the control you have over your opponent on the ground is plenty superior than in a stand up situation. In particular where you may need to restrain or control an opponent.

    These situations do come up outside of the gym and they are not all deadly situations where you have to worry about getting your head kicked in.

    What happens on the "street" runs a full gambit of situations. From holding a friend down who won't stop running his mouth to dealing with a drunk ass hole in a restaurant.
  2. bluedevilboy76 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 12:42am


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    Quote Originally Posted by cualltaigh View Post
    So just to clarify, Luke's specific anti-grappling techniques are bad because being on the ground(grappling) in any non-sport situation is always a bad idea?
    To answer your question:
    Luke's anti-grappling techniques look pretty sketchy. Selling ground fighting as a good idea in an uncontrolled environment is a bad idea. Being on the ground for too long in an uncontrolled environment is a bad idea. My observation wasn't about grappling in general. In my relatively limited experience, grappling includes a lot more than a ground game.
  3. bluedevilboy76 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 12:59am


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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Really ANY situation you say? I can think of plenty of situations where having the control you have over your opponent on the ground is plenty superior than in a stand up situation. In particular where you may need to restrain or control an opponent.

    These situations do come up outside of the gym and they are not all deadly situations where you have to worry about getting your head kicked in.

    What happens on the "street" runs a full gambit of situations. From holding a friend down who won't stop running his mouth to dealing with a drunk ass hole in a restaurant.
    So you're saying it's preferable to hold your friend down rather than control him while standing? If you extend that rationale, you're claiming that holding him down is better than exiting him from the situation he is trying to create, never mind the huge problem that your friend presents as a magnet for trouble.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:01am

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    It's fun watching a poster create contrived and fallacious scenarios, while explaining how all of the counter scenarios are contrived and fallacious. This thread is hilarious. Thanks guys.
  5. bluedevilboy76 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:04am


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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Since this is (was) MABS I'm moving it to YMAS. Weird place to decloak from lurking.
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=101789
    To clarify for those that don't seem to get it: I am not putting forth that grappling is bad. I am putting for the notion that ground grappling for too long in a scenario outside of competition/training is a bad idea.
  6. bluedevilboy76 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:07am


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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Since this is (was) MABS I'm moving it to YMAS. Weird place to decloak from lurking.
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=101789
    To clarify for those that don't seem to get it: I am not putting forth that grappling is bad. I am putting forth the notion that ground grappling for too long in a scenario outside of competition/training is a bad idea.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:08am

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevilboy76 View Post
    To clarify for those that don't seem to get it: I am not putting forth that grappling is bad. I am putting for the notion that ground grappling for too long in a scenario outside of competition/training is a bad idea.
    Too clarify, for the poster that doesn't understand, the first post was removed because the previous thread was not about LUKE'S ANTI-GRAPPLING.
  8. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:12am

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     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How about sex? Surely uncontrolled sex on the floor can be a good idea, outside of training and competition of course.
  9. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:13am

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevilboy76 View Post
    So you're saying it's preferable to hold your friend down rather than control him while standing?
    Depending on the friend yes. Some of my friends would be very difficult to "control" while standing up. Honestly how much control do you think you can really exert over someone while standing? They have many many more planes of motion to engage in.
    Ideally I would rather not be forced to hurt my friend.
    This can also at times be said for an adversary. The ability to hold one down in a manner that prevents them from being able to do any damage and to keep me from actually having to hurt them can and does comes up.


    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevilboy76 View Post
    If you extend that rationale, you're claiming that holding him down is better than exiting him from the situation he is trying to create, never mind the huge problem that your friend presents as a magnet for trouble.
    Not that I tend to associate with the sorts these days but I have on more than one occasion had a friend whom have jumped out of the god damn window of my truck to get back to said trouble. It is not always easy to remove someone from an area whom does not want to be removed. Especially when women and boozes are involved.

    Once again every encounter isn't OMG do as much damage as you can and get out of there encounter. Not every encounter warrants doing significant amounts of damage to the other party involved.

    So while being on the ground in certain situations isn't advisable its also not the worse thing ever in every situation outside of the gym. It can also be a good place to be outside the gym depending on variables.

    That being said the best way to get off the ground is to have comprehensive knowledge of ground fighting.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2014 1:20am

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    Hold on, this keeps getting better.

    Did you actually tell someone to quit projecting biases after you posted this:
    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevilboy76 View Post
    Wait: are you operating under the assumption that all fights on the street don't exist unless there is video evidence of it? Are you operating under the assumption that there is only ever going to be one person fighting you?

    All notions that the mount is a superior position will disappear when the other people with whoever you are grappling soccer kick your head and proceed to stomp the everloving snot out of you as he picks himself up and readies the car for a getaway. You would consider yourself lucky if you wake up and remember your name, much less anything about bjj that you've learned in the last year or two.

    Seriously: don't confuse fitness and sport fighting with the potential for violence on the street. Your world (of the mat/tournament/ring) has training and rules that KEEP you from hurting each other too badly. The only limiter for street violence is how well-planned the attack on you is.

    Don't take this as a knock on grappling or bjj specifically. Some of the toughest guys I know are bjj players and grapplers. It's a valuable skillset.



    In response to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I am willing to bet you, that I can find more videos of people ground fighting in the "street" that don't end with a boot to the head than you can find of videos of ground fights ending with one.
    He said I can find video and you lectured him about the street, soccer kicks, multiple attackers, street vs Mat, fitness and A GETAWAY CAR like a movie.


    Everyone, currently in this thread, knows STREET is not the MAT or a tourney. You should learn that MAT and tournament techniques can work on the street. Yes, even with needles, lava, guns, knives and homeless black people ready to soccer kick you if you go to the ground.
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