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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2014 11:47am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Honestly, you get what you pay for. Before someone brings up the, OMG they only work 9 months blah blah blah, go look at how much they pay an average college professor at a state school. They actually have longer breaks, better hours, better pay, work less days, have weekends off, get ALL major holidays paid and top out at nearly triple the pay of elementary to high school teachers. You know, the people spending 7-8 hours a day with your kids molding their malleable minds.

    I completely understand why people home school. Like I said in another thread, when a dumbass teacher tells me what race to designate my kid you can **** right off.
  2. goshinbudoJJ is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2014 12:04pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Preaching to the choir with that idea, IIF.

    I spent 5 years teaching in NYC high schools (1 year public/4 years catholic). Also spent a year as an adjunct for City University.

    I made less money and worked more hours than the guys that picked up my garbage and the meter maids that wrote me parking tickets. Fucking criminal.
  3. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2014 12:04pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The home schooling is completely secular. Yesterday we compared the Epic of Gilgamesh to the story of Noah's Ark. It was quite interesting.
  4. NeilG is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2014 1:13pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goshinbudoJJ View Post
    Preaching to the choir with that idea, IIF.

    I spent 5 years teaching in NYC high schools (1 year public/4 years catholic). Also spent a year as an adjunct for City University.

    I made less money and worked more hours than the guys that picked up my garbage and the meter maids that wrote me parking tickets. Fucking criminal.
    Really? High school teachers around here top out at about $60K I think, which isn't great money but better than janitors I should think. Given that they get way more vacation than the average the effective salary is somewhat higher than 60 IMO.
  5. goshinbudoJJ is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2014 1:29pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Really? High school teachers around here top out at about $60K I think, which isn't great money but better than janitors I should think. Given that they get way more vacation than the average the effective salary is somewhat higher than 60 IMO.
    I started at 31k back in 2003, the starting salary for an NYC sanitation worker was roughly the same, if I remember correctly.

    After 5 years, I would've been at 48k had I stayed in public school whereas the sanitation guys would've been closer to 70k.

    Things are better for teachers in the city nowadays (they got a new contract in 05 or 06 iiirc), but picking up the trash is still a more lucrative gig from a monetary standpoint.

    And it is true that teachers get a lot of time off, but sanitation workers typically spend 4 hours a day picking up garbage while the rest is spent "cleaning" the trucks. Couple that with the fact that sanitation workers can clock **** loads of overtime and some of those guys were banking in excess of 6 figures... even back in 2003.
  6. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2014 1:44pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goshinbudoJJ View Post
    I made less money and worked more hours than the guys that picked up my garbage and the meter maids that wrote me parking tickets. Fucking criminal.
    It's really not criminal though. There's that whole personal responsbility thing, making good decisions with your life and all that, right? Was there some crafty trickster who misled you about teacher salaries? How much did you expect to be making as a teacher?

    Seems to me there are a lot of teachers who are happy enough with teacher salaries to become a teacher, but apparently not happy enough not to bitch about it once they have the job.
  7. goshinbudoJJ is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2014 2:02pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    It's really not criminal though. There's that whole personal responsbility thing, making good decisions with your life and all that, right? Was there some crafty trickster who misled you about teacher salaries? How much did you expect to be making as a teacher?

    Seems to me there are a lot of teachers who are happy enough with teacher salaries to become a teacher, but apparently not happy enough not to bitch about it once they have the job.
    No, not at all. I knew it was a labor of love coming into it.

    What's disappointing is that it was a job that required advanced schooling that didn't pay a living wage. 30k may be a lot in other parts of the country, but it's not enough to support a family in New York.

    In my last year of teaching (2007), I had the following "jobs":
    • HS Bio/Chem/Physics teacher
    • Detention Prefect
    • Assistant Varsity Basketball Coach
    • Science Olympiad Coach
    • Bartender at Applebees
    • Attending Grad School (Physics)
    • Adjunct Lecturer at CUNY
    • Private tutor


    At that time I was making just enough to get by (about 55k). Wasn't saving any money towards owning a home, no savings for the future... just enough to pay the bills and put food on the table.

    I got sick of it and decided to "sell out" and go work for a hedge fund as a quant analyst. Turned out to be the best decision I ever made from a financial standpoint, but had I been able to make as much as the average garbage man as a teacher, I'd probably still be teaching.

    The compensation forces good people into other fields. Typically, the shitty teachers stay on board because they wouldn't be able to hack it in a world w/o tenure.
  8. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2014 2:13pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goshinbudoJJ View Post
    No, not at all. I knew it was a labor of love coming into it.

    What's disappointing is that it was a job that required advanced schooling that didn't pay a living wage. 30k may be a lot in other parts of the country, but it's not enough to support a family in New York.

    In my last year of teaching (2007), I had the following "jobs":
    • HS Bio/Chem/Physics teacher
    • Detention Prefect
    • Assistant Varsity Basketball Coach
    • Science Olympiad Coach
    • Bartender at Applebees
    • Attending Grad School (Physics)
    • Adjunct Lecturer at CUNY
    • Private tutor


    At that time I was making just enough to get by (about 55k). Wasn't saving any money towards owning a home, no savings for the future... just enough to pay the bills and put food on the table.

    I got sick of it and decided to "sell out" and go work for a hedge fund as a quant analyst. Turned out to be the best decision I ever made from a financial standpoint, but had I been able to make as much as the average garbage man as a teacher, I'd probably still be teaching.

    The compensation forces good people into other fields. Typically, the shitty teachers stay on board because they wouldn't be able to hack it in a world w/o tenure.

    I understand the pay sucked. But you knew it was going to suck, so........

    I have no doubt the compensation forces people into other fields. It's the same way with lots of jobs funded by local, state or federal governments. However, I definitely don't get all teary eyed when teachers bitch about salary. If teachers, military personnel, etc are going to all get paid great salaries, everybody has to pay more taxes.

    I'm not for that at all - especially since I have very little confidence that greater salaries would increase the overall quality of education in public schools. I'm only interested in teacher salary increase discussions if the discussions also include cracking down on ****-ass teachers, eliminating tenure, going to merit based pay and promotions, and soforth.
  9. goshinbudoJJ is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2014 2:22pm

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    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I understand the pay sucked. But you knew it was going to suck, so........

    I have no doubt the compensation forces people into other fields. It's the same way with lots of jobs funded by local, state or federal governments. However, I definitely don't get all teary eyed when teachers bitch about salary. If teachers, military personnel, etc are going to all get paid great salaries, everybody has to pay more taxes.

    I'm not for that at all - especially since I have very little confidence that greater salaries would increase the overall quality of education in public schools. I'm only interested in teacher salary increase discussions if the discussions also include cracking down on ****-ass teachers, eliminating tenure, merit based pay and promotions, and soforth.
    Totally agree Devil, I'm all for merit-based pay and the total elimination of tenure. I don't think anyone deserves to be paid based solely on attendance, which is what happens when some teachers get tenured.

    For me, it just got to a point where there weren't enough hours left in the day for me to work to get my family to where I thought we needed to be financially. Rather than bitch about it, I got the **** out of there. No regrets.
  10. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2014 2:26pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goshinbudoJJ View Post
    Totally agree Devil, I'm all for merit-based pay and the total elimination of tenure. I don't think anyone deserves to be paid based solely on attendance, which is what happens when some teachers get tenured.

    For me, it just got to a point where there weren't enough hours left in the day for me to work to get my family to where I thought we needed to be financially. Rather than bitch about it, I got the **** out of there. No regrets.
    Sounds like a good decision.

    I'm not a teacher hater. My wife is just starting a new career as a teacher in the state ranked 46th in the nation in teacher pay. There are a lot of reasons she(we) decided she should be a teacher. The pay was part of our decision-making process and it would be silly of me to complain about it.
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