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  1. MikeD81 is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 1:44pm


     Style: Judo & WTF Taekwondo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Regarding the osteoporosis claim. Resistance training and some moderate impact training are widely established as improving bone strength, however there are a lot of factors which need to be accounted for. Firstly and probably most relevantly, there needs to be a stimulus sufficient enough to tell the bone it needs to remodel itself due to stress being placed on it, however not strong enough to cause significant trauma and possibly result in a fracture, etc. So there is basically a sweet spot of force/impact/stress that can be applied, anything over will be harmful anything under will have little to no effect. With conditions such as osteoporosis this zone gets narrowed due to the person's low bone mineral density (BMD).

    BMD is at its peak around the 25-30 year old mark for men (can't remember the figure for all the ladies out there). After this point it starts to decline naturally. So ideally, before and during this period you want to do as much as possible to increase it (ie drink your milk, do training involving a suitable level of resistance/impact). However, even as you age taking up appropriate activity that will stimulate bone remodelling will assist in improving your bone strength.

    So to answer the question of whether its going to improve BMD in people with osteoporosis.... Possibly, if its done appropriately and within the limits to prevent significant damage. However if the training went out of this zone, you could be looking at some pretty severe consequences for the individual with osteoporosis.
    Last edited by MikeD81; 3/07/2014 1:46pm at . Reason: Inner Grammar Nazi
  2. Mor Sao is online now
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    Nothing for Show, All for use

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 1:45pm

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     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jake is chop suey martial arts. All manner of gristly bits that mean nothing.

    He has no real kung fu.







  3. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 1:52pm

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     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    It shouldn't be the rationale for fighting with TAI CHI though.
    Tai Chi is a subtle but vicious fighting style. Here are two Masters displaying their prowess:



    For sheer unrestrained ferocity however, you can't beat -- Tai Chi Style Aikido! Combining the best of two great fighting arts:



    If you watch this entire video, you will develop great endurance and a blank stare.
    A nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its laws made by cowards and its wars fought by fools. ― Thucydides
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 2:09pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    It shouldn't be the rationale for fighting with TAI CHI though.
    Yes and no.
  5. ghost55 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 2:54pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah. That sounds like a mess. Thanks for explaining the iron training stuff. I was a bit confused by the phrasing and his method (Dale uses bean bags rather than boards if I am not mistaken). As for the concept of Iron Skills training, I never doubted that (if I could find a good place where I lived I would try to get Iron Body training ASAP), I just thought his method looked a bit different from what Dale did (plank thin vs bean bag), and some of his claims about his iron whatever training made me feel rather suspicious.
  6. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 4:49pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Ah. That sounds like a mess. Thanks for explaining the iron training stuff. I was a bit confused by the phrasing and his method (Dale uses bean bags rather than boards if I am not mistaken). As for the concept of Iron Skills training, I never doubted that (if I could find a good place where I lived I would try to get Iron Body training ASAP), I just thought his method looked a bit different from what Dale did (plank thin vs bean bag), and some of his claims about his iron whatever training made me feel rather suspicious.
    Iron training methods have a very simple, natural premise:

    stress + time - injury = progress

    Here, it's easy to see how IP is often abused/misused by people with fake/poor training:

    Too much stress = BAD
    Too little time = BAD
    Any injury = BAD

    Combine any of these with old age and frailty disease = VERY BAD

    Jake seems to have had a mixed bag of IP exposure...I based that on the fact that his IP exercise is fabricated (ie not a standard IP practice that I know of). It looks like something he either made up or was shown that was made up. IP methods are traditionally done standing, with far less striking force and on a far more forgiving surface.

    One of the red flags of poor/fake IP training is somebody actually hitting something hard and loud (ie for effect) repeatedly. Real masters of tid sa jeurng can practice nearly silently, if they choose. One of my favorite IP tools is a section of rubber tire innertube, tied off at both ends and filled with shot. Quiet, humble, effective, cheap. NO fancy woods, engravings, or sound effects.

    The pushups part, I would love to see one of his "80 year old students" do that. Sorry, the LAST thing I would ever suggest is an elderly person with frailty bone disease doing IP training...they will not get stronger bones through slow, careful microfracturing the way nature intended and IP can somewhat stimulate, but fractures instead.

    And that formula is pretty simple, statistically:

    Old age + fractures = death
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 3/07/2014 4:56pm at .
  7. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 5:32pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Yes and no.
    Yin and Yang. Tai Chi.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 5:55pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post

    Jake seems to have had a mixed bag of IP exposure...I based that on the fact that his IP exercise is fabricated (ie not a standard IP practice that I know of). It looks like something he either made up or was shown that was made up. IP methods are traditionally done standing, with far less striking force and on a far more forgiving surface.
    I just explained this and you still type this silliness? He didn't make it up, it was what he was taught.

    One of the red flags of poor/fake IP training is somebody actually hitting something hard and loud (ie for effect) repeatedly. Real masters of tid sa jeurng can practice nearly silently, if they choose. One of my favorite IP tools is a section of rubber tire innertube, tied off at both ends and filled with shot. Quiet, humble, effective, cheap. NO fancy woods, engravings, or sound effects.
    You need to stop with your uneducated CMA bullshit.

    The pushups part, I would love to see one of his "80 year old students" do that. Sorry, the LAST thing I would ever suggest is an elderly person with frailty bone disease doing IP training...they will not get stronger bones through slow, careful microfracturing the way nature intended and IP can somewhat stimulate, but fractures instead.
    Seriously? Stop typing. If you are going to copy Dale, do it effectively. Don't put your poor knowlegde and spin into something you do not fully know or understand

    Old age + fractures = death
    Stop.
  9. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 6:13pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're right in that my exposure to IP is only a few years of training but it's just that THIS form of IP is very foreign to me. If there is some element of legitimacy to it, I'm all ears.

    I understand defending Jake as not "hilariously bad". I see your point.

    What I don't understand is whether or not you're supporting the idea of IP training for the elderly? It still seems like a terrible idea, but maybe I'm missing something.

    For the record, I don't mind Jake or most of his videos, but he sure still gets a lot of flak (probably undeserved) for his former associations.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 3/07/2014 6:16pm at .
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 6:45pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nope, that's your own windmill.. Ghost55' said "hilariously bad kung fu" and that's where I am at. You found something to nitpick and I am calling you out on some of the hyperbole concerning iron palm.

    I've long said Sin The had legit training somewhere, then he decided to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon. I'm defending him from hilariously bad and that is it.
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