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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 3:12pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nope. If it is real damage, it'll hit in your mid to late thirties. Then, if you keep ignoring it, you'll wind up like my buddy, who found out he has a bunch of micro-fractures in his feet.

    People always say "it just...," but most times they ignored their body until it was too late.
  2. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 3:13pm

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     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.HoneyBadger View Post
    So I usually just tap when I feel like "yeah, I'm not getting out of this"
    This is actually a good policy not just for safety(which of course is the most important reason) but to optimist your training time. Their is no reason to sit their helplessly in a position you can not get out of. This helps both you and your partner get back to working.
  3. Mr.HoneyBadger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 3:17pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by crappler View Post
    This is why I don't like the guard (also because I have little short legs that can't hold even a normal size male that well). You can tap early, tap often, or change your game and not leave your feet out there or get better at reacting when someone starts to set up that move. I don't often get choked or leg-locked but of course this results in getting arm-barred like crazy. Protect one thing, something else ends up vulnerable. The reason you have not been hurt? Agree with other poster: dumb luck. Just my worthless two cents. Answer JNP's question.

    How do you feel about spider guard? At my club the guard position is used very offensively. My coach says we should never be flat on our backs for a long period of time, and that we should always be attacking from it, or sweeping the guy, or creating space to get out.

    I'm trying to tap early and often and watch my legs. But sometimes things just catch me by surprise, and by the time I know what's happening it's either over or it's painful. I'm sure with more experience comes more speed at knowing when to tap.

    (Plus at my old shitty gym, the coach always told us to fight submissions till the end. God I'm borderline ashamed that I went to that place. They should have some sort of National coaching criteria thing.)

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Nope. If it is real damage, it'll hit in your mid to late thirties. Then, if you keep ignoring it, you'll wind up like my buddy, who found out he has a bunch of micro-fractures in his feet.

    People always say "it just...," but most times they ignored their body until it was too late.
    So than should I go to the doctor now or do some type of exercise for the joint or what?
  4. Mr.HoneyBadger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 3:23pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Maybe the noobspaz wasn't doing them correctly? When I was a kid we were always doing WWF inspired wrestling, which included crappy leglocks. When I learned a few in actual grappling I learned how important it is for everything to be where its supposed to be. With correct placement, a small amount of force can cause more damage and pain than someone using more force in the wrong position.
    Well he didn't have his legs figure foured around the one he was hooking, and I think that's necessary for the sub. He didn't have me pinned by my legs really, so I could sit up and grab his arms to stop him. I don't think he was doing it right. I'm actually pretty lucky that he wasn't really spazzing to bad. he kind of just took it, twisted a couple times, saw that it wasn't working and moved on.

    Did the crappy ones hurt at all? Unfortunately the heavy-weight learned them from a guy who actually knew how to do them, but he may have still been doing them wrong.
  5. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 3:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.HoneyBadger View Post
    So than should I go to the doctor now or do some type of exercise for the joint or what?
    Of course it never hurts other than in the wallet to go see a Dr.
    That being said I generally I say listen to your body. Is it still in pain? Is your range of motion diminished? Do you feel injured. Are you ignoring any of these things?
    If not you are probably fine.
    Check your range of motion with the joint after any swelling has gone away. If you feel pain anywhere you use to not then you should probably get it checked out.
  6. Mr.HoneyBadger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 3:25pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AKRhino View Post
    Heal hooks can cause damage before you feel pain.

    Straight ankle locks (Achilles) are very different, and much, imo, "safer" to train. Achilles locks are often (but not always) legal when other, usually twisting, ankle locks are not.
    Yeah I'm not to worried about the achilles one. That one seems simple to me, because you feel directly where it's attacking (I think?) But the heel hooks scare the **** outa me. I don't even like it when the higher belts flow sub me with them (you know, like catch and release)
  7. Mr.HoneyBadger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 3:28pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Did you inform your training partner what your coach's policy is?
    At the time, no. I just kept rolling. And I didn't roll with him yesterday, so I didn't talk to him much. But next time I wrestle him, before we start I'll tell him no heel hooks and what coach said.
  8. Mr.HoneyBadger is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 3:32pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Of course it never hurts other than in the wallet to go see a Dr.
    That being said I generally I say listen to your body. Is it still in pain? Is your range of motion diminished? Do you feel injured. Are you ignoring any of these things?
    If not you are probably fine.
    Check your range of motion with the joint after any swelling has gone away. If you feel pain anywhere you use to not then you should probably get it checked out.
    Range of motion? Like can I stretch it out all the way?

    It feels Kind of stiff, but I might be favoring it because I'm worried it might be hurt. Retarded, I know. Kind of hard to do things normally when you're trying to see if anythings abnormal, you know?
  9. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 3:37pm

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     Style: JJJ/Judo[Nidan] BJJ[Blue]

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.HoneyBadger View Post
    On Tuesday, I was rolling for the rest of class with another white belt. He attempted an achilles lock but he wasn't reaping my leg so I was able to sit up and there was almost no pressure and certainly no pain. I thought it was weird that he went for a leg lock, because we're white belts so we aren't supposed to do them (even though no one has told us that, I overheard my coach saying he doesn't teach them to us because of safety concerns)
    Ankle Locks are Legal at White Belt in every tournament I have been to. Gi and No-Gi. Its even legal in the high restrictive IBJJF ruleset.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.HoneyBadger View Post
    So we kept rolling and he subbed me with a guillotine. We started up again and he put on a heel hook. I've read on here that this is a pretty dangerous sub because of all the myriad ways it can go wrong and cripple. Again, if I remember correctly, he didn't reap my leg, so I sat on him a little and there was some pressure in my ankle but not any pain.

    (I know, I know, "Tap before the pain, when you feel pressure, dammit!" But when you're not expecting another white belt to throw one on, and then your thinking "is this a heel hook? Why is he doing that?" By the time I had realized what was going on, he had let go)

    He let go and we went on rolling. (he's a cool dude, btw.)
    Sounds like a poor heel hook. Lucky for you, because the way you described your reaction, a good one would of caused some damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.HoneyBadger View Post
    Well, yesterday my leg felt kinda stiff, but that could just be my imagination because I have a tendency to worry about injuries.

    It got me thinking about my old club, and how I'm really starting to hate it. One day the coach there was teaching heel hooks. He told us nothing about how far to go, when to tap, how dangerous they can be, etc. (which was a recurring theme, I now realize)

    I got paired with a heavy weight who, when drilling, would take me down and crank the heel hook until my knee felt like it was gunna snap. It hurt so bad. Damn that place was dangerous as hell. That happened a bunch of times.

    So how am I still walking around? Shouldn't I have permanent damage now?
    You didn’t tear anything. Its ignorance and a myth that heel hook instantly injures your knee.
  10. AKRhino is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2014 3:53pm


     Style: Brazillian Jiu Jitsu

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.HoneyBadger View Post
    How do you feel about spider guard? At my club the guard position is used very offensively. My coach says we should never be flat on our backs for a long period of time, and that we should always be attacking from it, or sweeping the guy, or creating space to get out.

    I'm trying to tap early and often and watch my legs. But sometimes things just catch me by surprise, and by the time I know what's happening it's either over or it's painful. I'm sure with more experience comes more speed at knowing when to tap.

    (Plus at my old shitty gym, the coach always told us to fight submissions till the end. God I'm borderline ashamed that I went to that place. They should have some sort of National coaching criteria thing.)



    So than should I go to the doctor now or do some type of exercise for the joint or what?
    The guard is a powerful and mysterious position, whose power is only exceeded by it's mystery. Ok, not really, but seriously, I love the guard. It's definitely my comfort place. Other people like other positions. Each position has its strengths and weaknesses. I don't have any more problems avoiding ankle locks from the guard than I do getting my back taken from scarf hold (which is to say, it happens occasionally).

    As for fighting subs, it depends on the situation. For example, take an arm bar, is your arm fully extended? Then you tap. If, on the other hand, you've got your arm bent (grabbing the bicep of your other arm, for example), then you've got a defense in place, and should work escapes. Some subs are more dangerous than others, like spinal locks, which I'd recommend you just tap to and start over if you find yourself in one. Chokes, I fight until it's clear that I'm stuck and/or before I pass out. Triangle is a good example of a position I will fight through for several minutes if I can.

    So yeah, you gotta know when to fight through it, and when not to. As a beginner, twisting ankle locks are one of those that fall into the category of tap and start over, rather than try to fight through it. Hell, probably that applies to more advanced people as well. I know I don't like to fight them. If I can't prevent it from happening, most of the time I'll just tap. Also develop your skill of not giving a **** about tapping in the gym.
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