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  1. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2014 4:44pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I would say their is a great deal more certainty, this I know from training in an alive manner. This I know from getting my ass kicked over and over again. This I know from having my ego brutalized.

    I know what a judoka with a lifetime of training can do. I know what happens when a young in shape and aggressive man goes up against that. Been there done that.

    Even though I suck at both BJJ and Judo I know what happens when a new guy shows up. I know how much of an ass kicking even I can give. Let alone the guy who has been doing it for years.

    I don't have to guess cause I have witnessed it first hand over and over again.
    I don't disagree that live training greatly improves your odds. But I've trained in karate, Aikido, and BJJ, and if I were to run into trouble, I can't say which technique pool I would draw from. It could well be that something I learned in Aikido decides the outcome; particularly if I'm dealing with a strictly punch and kick kind of guy.

    I'll admit a win based on technique is more likely to come from my training in BJJ and kickboxing, and that's a lot of the reason why I trained in those styles. But, Aikido has also made its contribution to my "weapons" set. In the end, my physical condition, mind set, ability to take a punch, and even the kind of shoes I'm wearing could be the determining factors as much as any technique I learned; and that's not even taking into account what my adversary can or can't do.

    Edit: And as far as having your ego brutalized, this thread is proof that no one can beat an Aikidoka at having their ego obliterated.
  2. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2014 4:51pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Old men doing BJJ check that out blue belts and they still rock it

    Great video. I'd still be rolling if I could find guys my age to do it with. Easier to find aging karateka.
  3. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2014 5:02pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok guys, I'm tapping.

    I'm the last guy who would argue that Aikido, as commonly taught today, is an effective fighting art. I took major **** from my Aikido friends when I announced that I was cross training in BJJ; in fact it cost me my promotion to Sandan. I later took great pleasure in returning to my dojo and submiting anybody who was interested in testing me.

    I just go by the thinking that all MAs have something to offer, and in the end its the man that counts more than the technique.

    I absolutely must learn to never get involved in Aikido threads.

    On the other hand, this was an alternative to the epic battle currently going on in Trollshido.
    Last edited by CapnMunchh; 2/28/2014 5:23pm at .
  4. BKR is offline
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2014 5:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    And this was the best Tohei could do? Come on.
    What was he supposed to do ? He looks like he's kind of bemused by the whole situation, to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    As a cultural practice, Aikido doesn't produce fighters and it doesn't produce athletes. It doesn't produce people who know what to do when someone doesn't comply. It doesn't produce people who are strong, agile, and possessing good posture. They might get those skills and athletic attributes elsewhere, but...why?
    Posture wise I'd have to disagree. They do tend to be well centered, but once they get tussled a bit, lose their composure rapidly. That's my experience doing judo with aikido people. Also, ashi waza truly perplex them, as does being physically grabbed.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Judo produces athletes. It makes them more likely to be strong, agile, and of good posture. These things are taught and valued. (Judo produces non-striking "fighters", really grapplers, as well, but that's less important to this point.)
    Sort of on the posture from Judo. Maybe a more useable posture, and ability to adapt to force being used on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    This comparison is not spitballing. We do not have to pretend we don't know what 9 out of 10 judoka look like compared to 9 out of 10 aikidoka:
    LOL, aikidoka would be embarrassed by that guy....!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    And before you claim selection bias (which aikido has a lot of), I would say that the comparison holds for the change in practitioners as well. We do not have to pretend we don't know what judo makes out of a person, whatever their abilities when they start, 9 times out of 10. If they're a weak ponytailed dreamer they're going to get tougher in judo and more gullible in aikido. If they're an athlete they're going to get better throws from judo and...well, better wristlocks and ukemi from aikido.

    Style versus style comparisons do not become moot just because individual practitioners or dojos are outliers.
    My judo sensei/coach did some aikido. He learned some good stuff as related to Judo, but, he was already a elite level (US) judoka. His brother is now a rokudan or so in aikido, and was a ikkyu in Judo. We did some randori a few times, him using "pure" aikido. Not much of a contest once I got a hold of him.

    The big joke for us was that some aikidoka he knew back in Denver called judoka "the barbarians of the martial art world" back then. We had a lot of fun with that one !
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2014 5:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Ref stole that one from the big guy...
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2014 5:28pm


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Every one of you cowards needs to know one thing.

    By choosing more effective arts for your fighting, you chose THE EASY PATH.
    Your rewards come quick, but they are superficial.
    When you win because of your UFC, and your gammon-hands, a piece of your soul will know it was someone else's work.

    When you win with aikido... "Then you will be a man my son"


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
  7. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2014 5:32pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignorami View Post
    Every one of you cowards needs to know one thing.

    By choosing more effective arts for your fighting, you chose THE EASY PATH.
    Your rewards come quick, but they are superficial.
    When you win because of your UFC, and your gammon-hands, a piece of your soul will know it was someone else's work.

    When you win with aikido... "Then you will be a man my son"
    Judoka after tough shiai "Dammit, look at my shoulder...I got a grade 3 AC tear in that last match, and I still have to fight in the finals".

    Aikidoka after week long "intensive" training camp with Yamahoochie Shihan at a 4 start resort in Vail, Colorado: "Owwww, my wrists are sore !"
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2014 5:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    I just go by the thinking that all MAs have something to offer, and in the end its the man that counts more than the technique.
    I am not in complete disagreement with this. At the end of the day what ever martial art we are talking about is being done by a person.
    Just some martial arts are better at preparing people than others. Some that offer very little if anything at all to the people taking them (not saying Aikido is one of them).
    At the end of the day on our journey to better ourselves I can't but help believe that a MA with aliveness does this so much better. More physical fitness, more useful skill set, more humbling, and even better friendships made at the gym. So its not that I don't believe most martial arts have something to offer cause most do. Its just you typically get all they have to offer and more in some of the bullshido beloved ones.
    Such as Judo.
  9. ghost55 is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2014 5:41pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    This comparison is not spitballing. We do not have to pretend we don't know what 9 out of 10 judoka look like compared to 9 out of 10 aikidoka:

    During the five or so months that I trained Aikido, there were a lot of things about it that I could not stand. The techniques felt ineffective, and the sensei got really passive aggressive or straight up angry when I asked about application or resisted techniques at all during practice. That being said, every single black belt and brown belt at the Dojo was at least in decent shape. Come to think of it, there was only one fatty that showed up regularly, and that was a woman who came to the kids class with her son. And she was a white belt.
  10. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2014 6:35pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I am not in complete disagreement with this. At the end of the day what ever martial art we are talking about is being done by a person.
    Just some martial arts are better at preparing people than others. Some that offer very little if anything at all to the people taking them (not saying Aikido is one of them).
    At the end of the day on our journey to better ourselves I can't but help believe that a MA with aliveness does this so much better. More physical fitness, more useful skill set, more humbling, and even better friendships made at the gym. So its not that I don't believe most martial arts have something to offer cause most do. Its just you typically get all they have to offer and more in some of the bullshido beloved ones.
    Such as Judo.
    This doesn't really go to the merits of the art, but its also worth keeping in mind that MA is not just for the young and strong. On behalf of us MArtists in the "Executive Division" I will say that a non-competitive art like Aikido is more easily practiced by older people, who also derive some benefit from it. Its not much for real fighting, but its a lot better than geriatric tai chi.
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