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  1. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2014 6:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    my sensei (kodokan 8th dan) also teaches tomiki aikido out of our dojo. i started taking it and as it was described to me, aikido is like judo at a distance. i'm not sure that really lines up with my experience, but it's something they say.

    i will say that the tanto randori is as "alive" as any aikido i have ever seen.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  2. goodlun is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2014 6:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    my sensei (kodokan 8th dan) also teaches tomiki aikido out of our dojo. i started taking it and as it was described to me, aikido is like judo at a distance. i'm not sure that really lines up with my experience, but it's something they say.

    i will say that the tanto randori is as "alive" as any aikido i have ever seen.
    Well have often heard here that with a good Judo base one can make Aikido work. This could maybe buy into. Not sold on it quite yet too many videos of the suck.

    As for the knife thing yeah that does look a lot more alive but isn't the attack pattern still highly prescribed IE only thrusting a limited number of ways or something to that effect? I mean that doesn't mean much look at Kendo its alive and has a small number of legit strikes.
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2014 6:27pm

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    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    On the other hand, if we matched, say, a chunner with a ninjer of equal caliber (don't ask me how we figure that out).
    It would never work. This is a Chun/Ninja Paradox.

    The Chunner would only attack centerline, the ninja would only attack from behind, and so the two would just chase each other in circles until t = infinity, not knowing what the **** to do.

    The ONLY way to break this cycle would be for a strong judoka to take both down, simultaneously.
  4. CapnMunchh is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2014 6:54pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Well have often heard here that with a good Judo base one can make Aikido work. This could maybe buy into. Not sold on it quite yet too many videos of the suck.

    As for the knife thing yeah that does look a lot more alive but isn't the attack pattern still highly prescribed IE only thrusting a limited number of ways or something to that effect? I mean that doesn't mean much look at Kendo its alive and has a small number of legit strikes.
    With a good judo base you don't have to panic when your Kokyu nage falls flat, and you end up with a big uke hanging off your gi who won't let go. O worse yet, you trip over each other's feet and go down to the mat in a heap. When that happens, I've seen Aikidoka smile sheepishly and just get up, like the attack just ends there.

    As for tanto dori, yea a lot of what you see is prescribed attack patterns, but there are schools where people train more realistically, using a knife in quick movements and retracting it instead of just letting it hang there. Amazingly, some Aikido techniques still work when the attack is more realistic.
  5. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2014 7:14pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is the thing for me, when it comes to knife work.
    If your not taught how to deal with this

    whats the point?
  6. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2014 7:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!




  7. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2014 7:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  8. CapnMunchh is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2014 9:51pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Here is the thing for me, when it comes to knife work.
    If your not taught how to deal with this
    Aikido knife work is more about teaching Aikido principles than real attack and defense. Dog Bros, FMA people, are on a different plane altogether.

    Still, my experience in tanto dori was that you could do a lot better than the usual "straight lunge from 2 steps away and leave your hand hanging there" and still practice Aikido.
  9. BJMills is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2014 12:56pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    I figured that title would get some attention. Here is a video of Koichi Tohei, mixing it up with a judoka.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-0RF...ature=youtu.be

    For those unfamiliar with Tohei, he studied judo before becoming a student of Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido. He was the first disciple of Ueshiba to teach Aikido outside of Japan, and was chief instructor at the Hombu dojo before he split from the main organization 1974 to start his own splinter style -- "Ki Aikido." As such Tohei may be held responsible for the "no touch" style of Aikido practiced by such as Jukka Lampila.

    Maybe the match is not 100% genuine, but in general I thought this was about the best example I've seen of an Aikidoka resisting a grappler. What do you all think? Does this look at least like a halfway honest effort to take Tohei down? Bear in mind that, as the narrator point out, Tohei did not use any of his more deadly techniques.
    I like this video and I think it's a great learning tool, because really it shows that- at its highest level- this is absolutely the best an aikidoka can hope for against a fat, out of shape, untrained opponent.
  10. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2014 1:14pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's the rules for tanto randori:
    A.Criteria for tsuki-ari (effective tanto techniques)The pre-condition for tsuki ari(effective tanto stabbing) is that Tanto’s arm must be stretched when the rubber knife lands in Toshu’s body. If one stabs with his elbow hooked at a right angle, it will never be accepted as an effective one.
    I think this is bullshit- hooking with the knife or attacking with the elbow bent is not ineffective in the least. I hate how they phrase stuff like their rigid techniques are the only effective way to use the knife.
    a. The rubber knife must land in the part of the opponent’s body between armpit and belt levels. This includes the front, back, and both sides of the body, as well as the upper arms. However, the belt itself is not included in the target area.
    Only the torso? A knife attack can be lethal from the knee up, and attacking the hands and arms is day 1 stuff in knife arts.

    b. Tanto must step in and stab with his back straight and his balance stable.
    now you're gonna tell the guy how to stand?
    c. The rubber knife must touch the opponent’s body at an approximately 90
    -
    degree angle. But this particular condition does not have to be satisfied when Toshu is either off balance, has assumed an undesirable posture, or has already fallen on the mat.
    It just keeps getting more restrictive.

    knife stabbing should never endanger the safety of the opponent. Particularly, the type of stabbing with the fist landing directly on the opponent’s body is subject to
    penalization. However, if Toshu comes in without proper taisabaki, it is considered to be his fault.
    If secretly punching is superior to the knife attacks allowed, maybe the attacks allowed should be questioned.
    Inadequate (ineffective) or invalid stabbing
    1. Tanto techniques that do not satisfy the above conditions will not be counted as effective stabs.

    2.Tanto techniques will also be regarded as invalid unless the tip of the rubber knife has clearly touched Toshu’s body and Tanto has stabbed with proper foot movement.
    Again, calling anything but a stiff karate punch with a knife "inadequate" or "ineffective" seems to misunderstand how a knife works combatively.
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