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  1. Southpaw is online now
    Southpaw's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Dec 2002
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    Raleigh, NC
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    2,907

    Posted On:
    2/24/2014 7:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Open Guard Strategy

    I had one of those life-changing moments that normally come from a conversation with my instructor the other day...

    My open guard is horrible. And that's compared to the rest of my game which is also horrible. But as the dedicated martial artist I am, I decided a few months ago that the time has come for me to develop some shred of an open guard game, and that I would devote the foreseeable future to training it. After a long process that included a lot of experimentation and youtube videos (I won't bore you with the details), I decided to really work my butterfly guard, watching hours of youtube and then spending considerable time trying all the new sweeps at the gym. Despite having a great relationship with my instructor both inside and outside the gym...for some reason I didn't consult him on my grand tactical plan to base my open guard almost entirely on Marcelo Garcia videos.

    It was pretty fun though. Anyway, I asked my instructor a question about butterfly guard that prompted his life changing answer.

    Basically I explained to him that I've been really working hard on this butterfly guard...and I was wondering about some minor and likely irrelevant detail of engaging an opponent at the beginning off a rolling session by trying to scoot or angle into butterfly guard...and after listening intently to my question, the conversation basically goes like this:

    Instructor: "hmmm...When is the next time you plan on competing in a tournament?"

    Me: "Probably Never"

    Instructor: "Then throw your butterfly guard away. That's sport jiu jitsu. If you aren't going to compete, stop developing competition habits."


    I was kind of speechless and mumbled something like "really?" or "what?". He made it clear that while HE might use it in a fight, I certainly wasn't going to. And that I needed to get a grip with my hands, pick a target for my feet, and keep the fucking guy away from me, etc.

    It was life changing and insightful simultaneously.


    Anyway what followed was a very good explanation of the simple and obvious point that I apparently ignored (ie if I fall down or get knocked down in a fight, I'm not going to try and sit up into butterfly guard), and prompted some really good conversations about developing core habits and the like.



    So I'm much wiser and ready to once again immerse myself in self education through google and youtube (this is in addition to privates w/ instructor). Any recommendations on good, non-sport-related open guard strategy books or videos? I'd hate to have to ask my instructor. LOL.
  2. blackmonk is online now
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    Welterweight

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    Jun 2011
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    Austin, TX
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    879

    Posted On:
    2/24/2014 7:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not being a smartass, at all, but I would just stand up, and then work on your takedowns.
  3. DKJr is offline
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Richmond, VA
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    Posted On:
    2/24/2014 11:40pm

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    Not being a smartass, at all, but I would just stand up, and then work on your takedowns.
    Feet on hips guard, either upkick them (mma/self defense), sweep them, triangle/armbar them, or create distance to stand and take them down (like this guy said).

    I couldn't find any videos, but watch how Kron plays it. If I get some time this week I'll film some stuff from it. Gi or nogi?




    Tripod style sweep is an example of "distance management" guard work for SD/MMA.

  4. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Jul 2005
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    London, UK
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2014 5:25am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sit up guard != butterfly guard. The latter is extremely useful for fighting.
    Not being a smartass, at all, but I would just stand up, and then work on your takedowns.
    You can't "just stand up" if the guy is putting proper pressure on you.
  5. gregaquaman is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Arlie Beach
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2014 5:33am

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    Sit up guard != butterfly guard. The latter is extremely useful for fighting.
    You can't "just stand up" if the guy is putting proper pressure on you.
    Get up sweep submit is a model we use a bit. The get up forces propper pressure which opens up the sweep. Defending the sweep opens up space to get up.

    When the opportunity arises go for a sub.

    Defending the sub. Opens the get up or sweep.

    And so on.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhitsundayMartialArts
  6. gregaquaman is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2014 5:36am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  7. Southpaw is online now
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Dec 2002
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    2,907

    Posted On:
    2/25/2014 7:32am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DKJr View Post
    I couldn't find any videos, but watch how Kron plays it. If I get some time this week I'll film some stuff from it. Gi or nogi?
    Much thanks and appreciated. Gi would be preferable.
  8. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Jun 2009
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    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
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    4,476

    Posted On:
    2/25/2014 10:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    I had one of those life-changing moments that normally come from a conversation with my instructor the other day...

    My open guard is horrible. And that's compared to the rest of my game which is also horrible. But as the dedicated martial artist I am, I decided a few months ago that the time has come for me to develop some shred of an open guard game, and that I would devote the foreseeable future to training it. After a long process that included a lot of experimentation and youtube videos (I won't bore you with the details), I decided to really work my butterfly guard, watching hours of youtube and then spending considerable time trying all the new sweeps at the gym. Despite having a great relationship with my instructor both inside and outside the gym...for some reason I didn't consult him on my grand tactical plan to base my open guard almost entirely on Marcelo Garcia videos.

    It was pretty fun though. Anyway, I asked my instructor a question about butterfly guard that prompted his life changing answer.

    Basically I explained to him that I've been really working hard on this butterfly guard...and I was wondering about some minor and likely irrelevant detail of engaging an opponent at the beginning off a rolling session by trying to scoot or angle into butterfly guard...and after listening intently to my question, the conversation basically goes like this:

    Instructor: "hmmm...When is the next time you plan on competing in a tournament?"

    Me: "Probably Never"

    Instructor: "Then throw your butterfly guard away. That's sport jiu jitsu. If you aren't going to compete, stop developing competition habits."


    I was kind of speechless and mumbled something like "really?" or "what?". He made it clear that while HE might use it in a fight, I certainly wasn't going to. And that I needed to get a grip with my hands, pick a target for my feet, and keep the fucking guy away from me, etc.

    It was life changing and insightful simultaneously.


    Anyway what followed was a very good explanation of the simple and obvious point that I apparently ignored (ie if I fall down or get knocked down in a fight, I'm not going to try and sit up into butterfly guard), and prompted some really good conversations about developing core habits and the like.



    So I'm much wiser and ready to once again immerse myself in self education through google and youtube (this is in addition to privates w/ instructor). Any recommendations on good, non-sport-related open guard strategy books or videos? I'd hate to have to ask my instructor. LOL.
    So your BJJ training, (gi based I assume) is solely for self defense training?
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2014 10:49am

    supporting member
     

    -2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Anyway what followed was a very good explanation of the simple and obvious point that I apparently ignored (ie if I fall down or get knocked down in a fight, I'm not going to try and sit up into butterfly guard), and prompted some really good conversations about developing core habits and the like.
    Well if you end up on your butt and the other guy is still standing in front of you, and it isn't a BJJ competition, you'll probably get kicked in the head.

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 2/25/2014 11:00am at .
  10. blackmonk is online now
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    Welterweight

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    Austin, TX
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    879

    Posted On:
    2/25/2014 11:38am

    supporting member
     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    Sit up guard != butterfly guard. The latter is extremely useful for fighting.
    You can't "just stand up" if the guy is putting proper pressure on you.
    You've condensed a rather broad concept into something more simple. I was speaking broadly and conceptually.

    The OPs epiphany occurred when his instructor told him to abandon sporty aspects of BJJ, in favor of techniques that can apply to other situations, outside of sport. Hence, standing up is pretty strategically sound, especially from an open guard sort of starting point.
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