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  1. Mor Sao is online now
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    Nothing for Show, All for use

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2014 8:56pm

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     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    0 people are killed by acupuncture annually. 0

    over 150,000 people die annually in Hospitals under the supposed care of medical doctors.

    That is the point.

    I kill 0 people are MDs kills thousands with drugs and other botched up crap.

    That is the plain truth and very few want to listen. You cannot talk around the stats.

    But I am defrauding and conning people and the MDs are the REalZ?

    Glue sniffing and hiding heads in the sand.







  2. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2014 9:06pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dale, it's gotten better.

    After booting you, now they're asking questions indicating their knowledge of active acupuncture research is pretty superficial..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter Eichler
    "dale can you explain why sham has the exact same results As "real" acupuncture"
    "Exact same results" wow, talk about taking one study and drawing a conclusion like that, even when we can both post PUBMED links to other studies that don't show the "exact same results", and especially the better constructed recent studies without publishing bias that support effects beyond placebo.

    So much changes year to year...but these yahoos are stuck on old research, no doubt.

    You know, nobody would trust the opinions of any of these idiots on things like neuroscience or ophthalmology.

    Why do they feel the need to share their opinions on medicine half the civilized world is still using to heal people? Some misguided White Knight ****..

    This should teach you to never mess with Ninja Skeptics, Dale. Once they're inside your head...well, that's about all they're capable of, really.

    FYI, Phil Elmore is on the "Friends" list of Dieter Eichler, who is calling you out.

    And, they are talking about giving your business link negative reviews. What a group of circus rejects this particular FB group is...and of course, had to be ninjas.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 2/10/2014 9:09pm at .
  3. kamadul is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2014 9:25pm


     Style: Judo, Boxing

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mor Sao View Post
    0 people are killed by acupuncture annually. 0

    over 150,000 people die annually in Hospitals under the supposed care of medical doctors.

    That is the point.

    I kill 0 people are MDs kills thousands with drugs and other botched up crap.

    That is the plain truth and very few want to listen. You cannot talk around the stats.

    But I am defrauding and conning people and the MDs are the REalZ?

    Glue sniffing and hiding heads in the sand.


    So many people die in hospitals because that's where they go as a last resort. It's quite often were people go to die.
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2014 9:28pm

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    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kamadul View Post
    So many people die in hospitals because that's where they go as a last resort. It's quite often were people go to die.
    Could you honestly please stop lecturing the licensed medical professional on these things, Professor? I'm positive Dale knows infinitely more about disease, dying, and wellness than you or I.

    I want to like you. Stick to martial arts, leave healing to Dr. Dugas.

  5. goshinbudoJJ is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2014 9:30pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dale, don't sweat these ninjers. Half of them would tuck dick and run if they ran into Grandmaster Thomas Daw... the other half probably got their blackbelts from the MFMA.

    With that said, if they start neg reviewing your business.... we need to act. That's just poor behavior, even for a sneaky ninjer.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Bullshido - No BS MMA mobile app
  6. The Cap is offline
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    ORNYTHORINQUE!... BOIT-SANS-SOIF!... BACHI-BOUZOUK!

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2014 4:28am

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

    13
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dale, we (I) have zero doubt that you are not defrauding people with your work, but are in fact providing them with excellent care. That aside, this point stands:

    Quote Originally Posted by kamadul View Post
    So many people die in hospitals because that's where they go as a last resort. It's quite often were people go to die.

    The benefits of acupunture are multitudinous, you know this better than anyone here, but as an expert you must also be keenly aware that it is not a cure-all. When caught in the thralls of tetanus, rabies or other deadly, pathogenic ills, the aid of a hospital is not just beneficial but necessary. While there is some cross-over (some of the issues you would treat in your work might also be dealt with in a hospital, for better or for worse), many of the issues a hospital handles should under no circumstances be forced upon an acupuncturist alone, especially the deadly ones.

    This is why there is an issue with your argument here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mor Sao View Post
    0 people are killed by acupuncture annually. 0

    over 150,000 people die annually in Hospitals under the supposed care of medical doctors.

    It builds from the analogical fallacy (definition), suggesting that acupuncture is better than traditional medical care because traditional medical care kills people, based on the fact that both arts are applied to people who are unwell and only one has patients risk death. The issue being, again, that both sets of patients, while unwell, are sometimes unwell in very different fashions.

    This is merely a point of form; I hate to see a good argument go bad.
  7. Mor Sao is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2014 7:16am

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    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I disagree as I was an EMT in a past life. I did not say you should not go to a hospital when you have a serious health issue. I said many people die at the hands of MDs and many die from ineptitude as well as botched surgeries, wrongful diagnosis, screwed up med prescriptions and plain old human error.

    But the numbers are solid across the US and the world. More people die daily in places where people assume they are safe, and going to get better when the stats point exactly in the opposite direction.

    I believe in emergency medicine.

    I have some serious issues with other facets of medicine that are claiming to be effective yet kill more people than anything else.

    I will let you know if the asshat ninjer patrol starts to slander and libel me.







  8. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2014 8:50am

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    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Acupuncture is a sham. It works just as well as a sham, which I guess is nice*, but it's a sham.

    What all this newer research shows, time and again, is that both real acupuncture and fake acupuncture perform equally well. (In fact, sometimes fake acupuncture works better!) That is, they both “work” as well as a placebo, neither of them routinely work any miracles, and they have the same effect regardless of whether or not the needles are being used according to the principles of traditional Chinese medicine.
    As for this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mor Sao View Post
    0 people are killed by acupuncture annually.
    Well...

    "Eighty-six people have been accidentally killed by badly trained acupuncturists over the past 45 years, according to Britain's leading expert on alternative medicine." See also: http://edzardernst.com/2013/02/how-m...sts-in-denial/

    Also, people die because they trust acupuncture to heal things it can't.

    * As the link notes, if a placebo works just as well as the treatment, "that would be called failure".
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  9. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2014 9:01am

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At least according to the U.S. National Institutes of Health, acupuncture has been found effective for some medical issues, ineffective for others. There's a lot of controversy over its use and the methods used to conduct research into it:

    http://nccam.nih.gov/health/acupuncture
    A nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its laws made by cowards and its wars fought by fools. ― Thucydides
  10. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2014 9:28am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    At least according to the U.S. National Institutes of Health, acupuncture has been found effective for some medical issues, ineffective for others. There's a lot of controversy over its use and the methods used to conduct research into it:

    http://nccam.nih.gov/health/acupuncture
    I especially like this, from one of the "Research Spotlights":

    At the conclusion of the study, data showed that only treatment with the albuterol inhaler improved lung function. Lung function did not improve with either of the placebo treatments or after the no intervention visit. However, patients’ self-reports on their symptoms showed significant and approximately equal improvement with albuterol, the placebo inhaler, or the sham acupuncture.
    Humans are not so good at self-assessment. This should tell you something about why to be skeptical of, say, meta-analyses of acupuncture for chronic pain management.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
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