Thread: Judo Gip Fighting Thread
3/05/2014 11:44pm, #51
1. Ono is a right-hander. By getting a left under-armpit grip and flaring his elbow out, he is preventing Ono from moving him by way of the lapel and shoulder girdle.
2. The over-armpit grip on the right prevents Ono from finding a traditional grip. Tsagaanbaatar also clearly dismisses the HCG as a threat several times, and instead goes for Ono's left arm with two hands, thus preventing him from getting a sleeve grip, or turning in that direction.
A few side notes are that Tsagaanbaatar clearly does not want to play hip-to-hip with Ono. He also takes a low, almost-wrestling sort of stance at times, but still tries to maintain knee-to-shoulder alignment. It is only when this alignment is broken that he gets thrown. This is very characteristic of bokh and belt wrestling.
3/07/2014 10:04pm, #52
Ono has such an incredible sense of opportunity he was still able to catch him, though. I think under a slightly older set of rules Ono would have a much rougher time than he did.Falling for Judo since 1980
3/08/2014 6:12pm, #53
Ono was able to maintain his fundamentals despite Tsagaanbaatar's non-standard approach, because his fundamentals are so damned strong and ingrained, plus he is obviously very well coached.Falling for Judo since 1980
3/09/2014 7:18pm, #54
One of my coaches used to train with Tsagaanbaatar, and knowing that he is one of my favorite judo/sambo players, he asked me at our first practice (insert Israeli accent):
O: Why you think Tsagaanbaatar compete in so many different weight class? Why he let opponent get grip?
M: He is strong. Maybe he cuts to -66kg for the bigger events. His wrestling grips counter the traditional grips.
O: No, you want to know why?
M: (confused) Sure.
O: It because he is a real man. He does not give ****. You want to fight me, let's fight. I kill you.
Point is that he said Tsagaanbaatar is just a fearless animal of a man, and that's why he's competed everywhere from -66kg to -81kg, and is known for just walking straight into his opponent, without intercepting some key grips. Every time I see him fight, I have that in the back of my mind. There's a decent chance that a training partner of mine will have a match against him in a couple of weeks in Moscow. Ouch.
3/11/2014 10:23pm, #55
I do think he had more of a strategy in mind, that his bokh style gripping would shut down Ono enough to make a difference, which it did, and that he couldn't last long if he tried to beat Ono at his own game.
That and liking to fight !Falling for Judo since 1980
3/25/2014 12:16pm, #56
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I've noticed in a lot of videos of Bokh, the under over grip is seen very often. Do they seek the over under out rather than double under hooks for a specific reason? Are they hunting for it you think, or is it just a common position people end up in by chance?
I've also noticed that it seems like they just grab either one or both of the "collars" of their opponents jacket, while Tsagaanbaatar makes an effort to grab with an over hook and under hook on their seams/armpits, like you said.
Are they doing the same thing and I've just never noticed it you think?
(And a lot of times, in the videos I've seen, when they are just messing around or training, they will start in the over under. Maybe it's a cultural thing? Like "We'll start out neutral". This Mongolian does it during the second match he has. They are just messing around at a local Naadam.)
3/26/2014 2:14pm, #57
Honestly, I've never really thought about it. I'm sure the uniform dictates some of the choices in grips... presumably in the sense that grabbing onto the uniform (the "tube top" in mongolian wrestling) is a stronger control position than double unders.
The guy on here that could answer your question with the highest degree of expertise is Aaron Fields. He actually trained in Mongolia with the traditional wrestlers. Search his name on the members' list.
3/26/2014 2:46pm, #58
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Tsagaanbaatar's style reminds me of muay thai guys. He seems to just move right on in to them. He doesn't look like he plays patty cake. Like your coach said, right?: "It because he is a real man. He does not give ****. You want to fight me, let's fight. I kill you."
(Not saying Tsagaanbaatar isn't skilled. Just that it appears he has a very aggressive style compared to some others)
3/26/2014 4:24pm, #59
That's exactly the kind of game that my coach wants me to play, because he says I have the physical attributes to do it. Psychologically, however, that just isn't how I operate. It is something that I will have to work myself into.
Kazakhs usually fight in a similar manner, although the one that I wrestled today in Moscow did not.
3/26/2014 10:39pm, #60
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Probably a cultural thing, you know?
I've been watching a bunch of Bokh videos to see whether they utilize the same gripping seen by georgian chidoaba. I Can't really tell, though. It looks like they do, but Chidoaba seems to be played at a faster pace than Bokh.
It looks to me like for the georgians it's (roughly): grab both vest sleeves or just one sleeve, look for belt grip/over back grip/bear hug/, throw
In bokh it appears to be (again, roughly in my newb opinion): Grab both shoulders/one shoulder grip, ankle pick or shoot for a single, double, fireman's, and if you don't go for a more distance oriented technique, then get an over under grip and throw from there.
(I could be completely wrong about all of this, this is just what it looks like to me)
Aaron told me that they use over the back grips, belt grips on the little string that ties the jacket on them, arm drags, wrestling tie ups, arm pit/seam grips etc.)