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  1. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2014 6:06pm


     Style: Kendo

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kendo these days almost always refers to what Devil is asking about - the standardized martial art with the strong competition element that is largely sparring in armour with shinai. Kendo has a kata component that is, similar to judo, mostly ignored until grading time rolls around. Traversnz's dojo is an exception there. Kendo's organization consists of national federations that all belong to one international federation. It's remarkably cohesive, more so than any other budo.

    Kenjutsu is a broad term that refers to a number of older schools of swordsmanship. They are usually a family style, usually organized with one head guy who grants teaching permission to seniors. They usually practice almost entirely with kata, although many of them do test cutting and some do some sparring. They can vary wildly in their technique and culture.

    Kendo is what we call gendai budo ("modern martial art"), kenjutsu usually means koryu ("old school").

    Because of the movies and what-not, there are a lot of fake "kenjutsu" teachers out there. In fact, when someone says he studied "kenjutsu", odds are it wasn't the real deal. Ask him what koryu he is studying - if he doesn't know, red flag.
  2. traversnz is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2014 7:34pm


     Style: Judo, Muay Thai

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalLegion View Post
    Sorry to butt in on this thread, but I have a question about kendo, hope ya don't mind.

    What, if any, are the differences between kendo and kenjutsu?

    When I was in college and a member of a Shotokan club, one of the other members said he'd "done some kenjutsu". I asked him if that was anything like kendo. He said that kendo is a lot more of a sport than a martial art and that it pretty much consists of just a few movements and strikes that you just do over and over. He said kenjutsu, on the other hand, is an actual combat art and that, while there are some basic moves and techniques across the board, there are dozens of different styles, all with their own unique methods, but that each kendo school is pretty much the same as any other.

    I just nodded my head and didn't say anything. To this day, though, I am still wondering...is there any truth to that or was he just giving me a big plate of crap?
    A couple of questions in here:

    Each kendo school is pretty much the same is kinda true - it is standardised the same way judo is standardised. This is partly a result because they were both part of the physical education process in junior and senior high schools in Japan. It also means that you can feel safe going anywhere and training without fear of injury / not knowing what to expect etc. Strikes and targets are standard (hence the armour). Each school's attitude to training is different, however. There are hardcore schools and more recreational ones.

    Real (koryu) kenjutsu is VERY rare outside Japan. It exists mainly of kata based training (This is also VERY intense at higher levels). I have seen a LOT of schools proclaiming to be kenjutsu because they think it sounds cooler / more real etc. Kind of like a lot of the reverse engineering that goes on with judo becoming jujutsu and aikido becoming aikijutsu to make it more "street". Draeger has left a legacy with his explanations of the difference between -do and -justu.
    Best way to find out if its real or not is via lineage.
    That being said, if you're lucky enough to have access to real kenjutsu - take it. You're very lucky and I'm jealous.
  3. FinalLegion is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2014 8:59pm

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     Style: Shotokan

    1
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    Thanks NeilG and traversnz for those explanations. I understand the two much better now.

    I wish I'd been exposed to an actual koryu kenjutsu school, traversnz. I'm sure I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat.
  4. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2014 9:46pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalLegion View Post
    Thanks NeilG and traversnz for those explanations. I understand the two much better now.

    I wish I'd been exposed to an actual koryu kenjutsu school, traversnz. I'm sure I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat.
    There are lots of people who think they would like to study koryu but frankly it is not even close to everyone's cup of tea. The typical Bully is going to have a big problem with the kata-centric approach, for one thing. Personally, it's the sort of thing I like in principal but in practice I think I'd be bored. Or not, not sure, never had the opportunity. The kendo kata are from assorted koryu and according to koryu people I respect they are actually a pretty representative cross-section, but we don't practice them anywhere near the intensity that the real koryu folks do.
  5. DARPAChief is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2014 10:57am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I practiced kendo for about a year; whacking people with a shinai was fun, but being mindful of the rules eventually eroded my enthusiasm.
  6. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2014 12:12pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you want to hit people with fake swords but don't thrill to the notion of kata or having hits disallowed because they don't express the proper warrior spirit, fencing is a lot of fun.
  7. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2014 2:05pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    If you want to hit people with fake swords but don't thrill to the notion of kata or having hits disallowed because they don't express the proper warrior spirit, fencing is a lot of fun.
    One major downside of fencing (assuming we are talking about FIE fencing here and not SCA or HEMA) is that there is very little support for recreational players in most clubs. Once you're not an active competitor, they by and large don't care about you. There may be some exceptions but this is what I hear a lot.
  8. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2014 2:59pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    One major downside of fencing (assuming we are talking about FIE fencing here and not SCA or HEMA) is that there is very little support for recreational players in most clubs. Once you're not an active competitor, they by and large don't care about you. There may be some exceptions but this is what I hear a lot.
    Surprising to hear, here in the UK there's plenty of adult beginners courses and the like. Or at least there were ten years ago when I was last involved in the sport.
  9. ermghoti is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2014 3:02pm

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     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    If you want to hit people with fake swords but don't thrill to the notion of kata or having hits disallowed because they don't express the proper warrior spirit, fencing is a lot of fun.
    Proper warrior spirit>right of way debates.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  10. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2014 3:21pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    Proper warrior spirit>right of way debates.
    If I ever go back to fencing it will definitely be epee.
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