Thread: The IJF bans more things
2/06/2014 5:52pm, #51
- Join Date
- May 2009
But you, you claimed that one hand is stronger than two at breaking grips...or maybe you meant that training any method of breaking grips is exactly equal to training any other, so you should use the method that takes up the fewest hands? I was trying to understand your broken comment, and you refuse to either explain or retract it. All I'm getting from you is "do you evn ttrain lol" and "u no fuk all".
Last edited by Wing-Kwan-Fu; 2/06/2014 6:03pm at .
2/06/2014 7:19pm, #52
Matters for what? Modern competition judo ? Hell yes..."realistic fighting", much less so, if at all, at least in the case of "two on one" grip breaks rules changes.
Yes, rule changes affect how judo is trained, for the most part. A lot of judo today is competition oriented, so the rules of competition affect training to some degree. However, I think focusing on a particular rule or rules changes such as two handed vs one handed grip cutting might be a bit narrow. Judo has a lot to offer outside of the narrow confines of particular competition ruleset(s).
One of the principle...practices espoused here at Bullshido is "aliveness". Judo and BJJ have that, within their focus (stand up and ground grappling) have that in spades. Both allow the full speed application of techniques and movements both in practice and competition. The principles learned are useful for self defense/fighting, as well as conditioning, mental attitude, toughness, (especially competition), are useful in "real life" as well.
So, "alive" training is the most important thing, first of all.
Next is "cross training", depending on how "realistic" one wants one's skills to be in what context.
For example, I have to handcuff people as part of my job. I never trained in handcuffing people in my 30+ years of Judo training. So I got specialized training in cuffing methods. My judo training was an excellent background for that and the process of taking people to the ground and controlling them. I also know how to perform under highly adrenalized conditions (from judo competition), and have no qualms about physically "handling" people against their will.
So, sure, it's valid to be concerned about rules changes and their effect, in general, on the specifics of "realism" of a given martial art. Looking at the big picture, though, the primary "deficiency" of Judo is it's lack of striking integrated with the superb grappling it offers, despite the ruleset and changes over the last 100+ years.
That can be cured by cross training if one is so inclined.
Last edited by BKR; 2/06/2014 7:29pm at .Falling for Judo since 1980
"You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS
2/06/2014 9:48pm, #53
Grip fighting is one of the most artificial things about modern judo competition. The idea that in any kind of real fight you'd spend half your time trying to impose a dominant grip while denying your opponent a grip, all so you can execute your ideal throw, is kind of ridiculous. The trend in the rules these days for judo is to try to give reasonable leeway to let the players establish their grips, but if they are refusing to engage by repeatedly denying the other player's grip, it's a penalty. Two-handed breaks are disallowed for much the same reason.
When we talk about "negative" judo, we are talking about this kind of thing - fighting that is about denying your opponent's attacks rather than creating your own opportunities.
2/06/2014 11:54pm, #54
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
I can definitely get behind the mentality of a positive training culture where people are prepared to "lose" in order to better themselves and their partners. However, I'm still a little confused about how this applies to competition.
Pulling guard in BJJ is also unrealistic, but this is a sport and realism is often ill-defined. On the contrary, shouldn't something as idiosyncratic as grip-fighting be welcomed in sport grappling?
Maybe that's where the divergence lies. In my view, sport grappling is an exercise in how sophisticated my grappling is; if someone can subdue me with their grips, then I'm embarrassed and frustrated and I won't be satisfied unless I can navigate the problem with better grappling. Is that so weird? Is it incompatible with judo?
Last edited by DARPAChief; 2/06/2014 11:59pm at .
2/07/2014 12:13am, #55
What happens in judo if you don't limit the grip-fighting is that it goes on forever. You can penalize it a few different ways though, I have the option of saying the guy was stalling or refusing grip or stiff-arming depending on how I see it. Any way you slice it, the prevailing view is that you should be attacking not defending.
2/07/2014 2:59am, #56
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
The way I'm reading that, it sounds like grip-fighting is like a judo kryptonite that sabotages competition, which suggests that the aim of a judo competition is to chase the dragon that is judo, not to grapple per se. Is that accurate?
Last edited by DARPAChief; 2/07/2014 3:04am at .
2/07/2014 11:17am, #57
I'm not against grip fighting at all, although I do realize that it is sport-specific. I find that a lot of judoka have a less-bumpy transition to striking arts than pure newaza arts, like BJJ, if they were originally taught grip fighting in a real, aggressive manner. Just speaking from personal experience.
There are 1000 things about sport sambo that aren't necessarily street applicable, but it doesn't make me love sambo any less. Furthermore, though, anyone who thinks they can take a high-level sambo practitioner in a street fight because they've trained casually for a few years in "real" arts like MT, MMA, or BJJ is fucking mistaken. You're gonna get total-victoried on the top of your skull.
2/07/2014 4:13pm, #58
2/07/2014 4:17pm, #59
2/07/2014 4:20pm, #60