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  1. katahajime is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/29/2014 9:27am


     Style: Tae Kwon Do, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well there goes one of my favorite grips. On the bright side, this might reduce some stalling (we will see).
  2. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    1/29/2014 9:52am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Old news, and most of those changes are for the better. Going back to the older standard for ippon is welcome news IMO- no more slow-roll drop seionage or buit-to-shoulder kouchigari, those are max waza-ari. Continuing the trend to more ne-waza by letting it go put of bounds also good, no more weenie escapes from osaekomi by dragging tori out. I don't care about double-handed breaks, extended grip wars bore me and are negative judo anyways. Leniency for juniors on leg grabs is good (first one's a shido). Speaking of penalties, love the changes making it hard to win on penalties - so long as you have more points than the other guy, shido doesn't matter.

    Don't care for the new two on one grip rule (have to attack as soon as the grip is established).
    you're right, most of these are for the better. i think if they had put back in the direct leg attacks in addition to all this, they would still get the sort of attacking judo they want to see, and we could put great techniques like kata guruma back into judo shiai.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  3. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    1/29/2014 10:44am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    grumble grumble something something Freestyle Judo something grumble
    Hey, if you can find it, go for it.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    1/29/2014 11:08am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Old news, and most of those changes are for the better. Going back to the older standard for ippon is welcome news IMO- no more slow-roll drop seionage or buit-to-shoulder kouchigari, those are max waza-ari. Continuing the trend to more ne-waza by letting it go put of bounds also good, no more weenie escapes from osaekomi by dragging tori out. I don't care about double-handed breaks, extended grip wars bore me and are negative judo anyways. Leniency for juniors on leg grabs is good (first one's a shido). Speaking of penalties, love the changes making it hard to win on penalties - so long as you have more points than the other guy, shido doesn't matter.

    Don't care for the new two on one grip rule (have to attack as soon as the grip is established).
    I'm pretty much in agreement with you, Neil. The more strict interpretation of ippon is great, I have not heard any complaint about that one.

    More time is being allowed for ne waza, including the out of bounds play. Some refs obviously are struggling because they are so used to the older ways, and/or have no understanding of ne waza.

    I used to hate how guys would crawl out of bounds so obviously (which WAS a penalty in any case, just not enforced...I used to try to enforce it, but always got overruled and or yelled at at national level events I reffed at).

    The two handed grip breaks I ambivalent. They were for sure abused at higher levels, which led to "grip and rip" exchanges. So overall that is on the positive side.

    The shido first for leg grabs is common sense, every now and then we see that in judo...

    Penalties not counting as scores is a welcome change. I still see pushing the clock as a tactic to get a shido on opponent, but not nearly as blatant. This sort of stuff becomes more of a factor between very evenly matched judoka, and is still viable, but not nearly as much as before because one positive score neutralizes all the penalties.

    I'd like to see leg grabs/attacks back in, at least as counters or secondary attacks, however, I understand that it was getting too hard on the refs to differentiate at times. That's really a shitty reason to in a way to change rules...the game isn't for the refs, after all...however, it do away with some marginal or bad calls.

    One thing nobody has mentioned is the camera system, with refs at the table and one on the mat with a transceiver in his ear.

    It's an expensive and complicated system that won't be used at smaller events, thankfully. Refs need to be trained on the tatami, under fire so to speak, working with other refs, not sitting at a table looking at cameras with higher level refs calling the shots.

    In the case of events that have only one or even two cameras, in my opinion it's not much if any better than having a center and two lateral/side refs on the mat. The camera only has one point of view. The ref has one point of view. 3 refs on mat has 3, counte'em, THREE points of view. At IJF events they have multiple cameras plus overhead.

    Reffing, in Judo at least, has it's quirks. The egos involved often become quite massive, or maybe (well, no, positively) swell from large to huge. Some guys work hard to become refs in order to compensate for shitty judo they did/do, as in unskilled. Others to help get promoted, at higher levels even to get to travel on the judo associations dime. This is not true in all cases, but it's common.

    The above all relative to the camera system. I bet the preference for a lot of refs is to be at the table, assuming their godlike powers of instant replay, safe from being out on the tatami and making the initial calls, which can be and often is VERY difficult, especially at higher levels of competition.

    Jeez, I started to rant, LOL. OK, [/rant off]
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. poker is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/29/2014 12:21pm


     Style: Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not sure if it was a rule before, but the concept of avoiding yuko by propping yourself up on your elbow looks like it could cause shoulder injuries.

    I am OK with the rest of the rules and I think they prevent stalling.
    Last edited by poker; 1/29/2014 12:27pm at .
  6. NeilG is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/29/2014 12:41pm


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ben I did hear comments from a couple of the refs I was working with that they were worried the stricter ippon calls would lead to more injuries. Compared to the 70s when we more or less had to see the guy bounce to get ippon, I don't think this will be an issue.
  7. CrackFox is offline
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    1/29/2014 12:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Ben I did hear comments from a couple of the refs I was working with that they were worried the stricter ippon calls would lead to more injuries. Compared to the 70s when we more or less had to see the guy bounce to get ippon, I don't think this will be an issue.
    At the competitions I've been to where I've seen senior refs over-rule ippons, it's been for not putting the guy flat on his back - especially over-rotations. I haven't seen any calls for lack of force.
  8. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/29/2014 12:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by poker View Post
    I'm not sure if it was a rule before, but the concept of avoiding yuko by propping yourself up on your elbow looks like it could cause shoulder injuries.

    I am OK with the rest of the rules and I think they prevent stalling.
    Arching on the side to avoid yuko has been around forever. I don't think the injury issue from it is major at all. I saw it at the Saskatchewan Open, hell, I saw it at practice on Monday night.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/29/2014 1:34pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Moved to Advanced Grappling for a more serious discussion.
  10. NeilG is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/29/2014 1:58pm


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    At the competitions I've been to where I've seen senior refs over-rule ippons, it's been for not putting the guy flat on his back - especially over-rotations. I haven't seen any calls for lack of force.
    The concern was not directly the force so much as the flat on the back part which will affect force. For example, if your tokui-waza is seoi-otoshi, then the outcome is typically a roll, and you can't get ippon with that anymore. That means you are going to have to seriously launch your opponent so the feet fly over and you get that flush landing, and that's going to cause a much harder landing.

    The rolling landing thing is a bit of a debate. At the SaskOpen I was one of the camera refs when ippon was called on a taotoshi. Uke rolled sideways across his back, very quickly. Really you could only see it on the rewind, and we debated it after watching it back half a dozen times. The senior guy there thought that if you had to look at it that close and it had been called on the floor, it could stand as ippon. Even though I like the new rule, I thought it was a beautiful throw and should have been ippon. Most there thought it was on the edge. So I guess we just need more experience and direction with these rules. If we get too anal about the flush landing we are going to negate a lot of nice ippon and potentially raise injury rates as people try to bury uke in compensation.
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