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  1. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2014 2:31pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Excessive or no?

    This video is starting the social media rounds:



    I do not know anything about what this guy was doing but obviously he is being arrested. Was Taser'ed and is still refusing to roll over and comply with being cuffed. One officer applies some baton strikes to the subjects lower legs. One officer tries to roll the guy over and he starts kicking...eventually they roll him and cuff him and its over.

    People are yelling "police brutality" all over the place...I really don't see it. Sure they could have piggy piled on the guy and still wound up having to "stick" him...there didn't appear to be any "gratuitous" use of force. The guy using the baton "looks" bad to the uninitiated I guess, but the lower legs are a valid target for that tool and the guy was using his legs to kick at officers. I saw no kicks, head strikes, multiple officers "piling on" with punches/kicks/sticks/etc. Sure they "could have" piled on the guy and wrestled him but they also could use the tools they have and attempt to gain compliance.

    Someone keeps saying "they keep on Tasing him!" But I can't really tell if they did or how many times, the guy doesn't stiffen up or exhibit many of the physical indications of "taking a ride" that I can see.

    I think this is yet another example of people just not knowing what they are looking at or having some sort of expectation of what "nice" use of force is supposed to look like.

    Thoughts?
  2. kamadul is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2014 3:03pm


     Style: Judo, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It looks like those cops took it mighty easy on him. Where I am from they would have been smashing his head in with the batons as soon as he refused to roll over. I've never seen cops that try to negotiate with someone who is being arrested like this.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2014 4:11pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure it's......brutal. It also police.... Police Brutality.... LOL.

    I'd like to see the start because he is already in a defensive kicking position. As it is, it looks like he nutted up and was met with an appropriate response.
  4. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2014 4:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is a person who rolls around in the middle of a street half-naked.

    A menace to traffic, no less, and clearly not much use to anyone, including himself.

    The only brutality here is that they let him live. Would you want to continue living if you were this roadside beached-whale? Exactly.

    Humane time-saver? Just shoot, and then call city sanitation to clean up the pavement.

    No, I am not kidding. Cops get to go home, sanitation workers get some exercise, the road gets cleared, traffic can resume, one sadsack flab-ass has his suffering mercifully ended, thus benefitting the gene-pool. Also, some dork will post it on youtube and we can all increase our IQs by reading the resulting commentary.

    One spent round and everyone wins. If only the rest of life were so simple.
  5. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2014 5:03pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's another video of the same incident, containing footage from a security camera that show the suspect engaging in a fight outside a liquor store before the police arrive.


    There is a rambling speech by someone at the end, not sure what the point was.

    So it does seem that he was already combative before the officers arrived. I also did not see that he was being tazed so many times. However, the entire incident isn't shown and the camera angle is not perfect, so it could have happened more times. I'm actually wondering why he wasn't tazed more times to immobilize him once and for all, rather that trying to force compliance with baton strikes -- which may have been technically justified, but have a way of causing bystanders to cringe. The tazer is cleaner, and plays better on video than baton strikes.

    However, I don't think the baton strikes were excessive. It doesn't look like bones were being broken here, and he is refusing to comply. It is possible that the arrest could have been made using less force, but the law doesn't require that an arrest be made with the absolute minimum of force, only that it not be made with excessive force, and I don't think it goes that far here. However, to make the final call on the entire arrest incident it would be nice to have some additional information. Were the officers in compliance with their own departmental regs? How was the suspect treated after the camera goes off? What injuries did he have at booking?
  6. slamdunc is online now
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    Extraordinarily Ordinary

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2014 7:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I see intermediate weapons being utilized to meet with active resistance. As long as they stay on the legs with the baton strikes and are otherwise within policy, they should be good to go.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2014 7:10pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1:50 is where the new video starts.
    LRJ is a fucking idiot.
  8. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2014 7:19pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From a professional opinion aspect...sure I think that they could have and probably should have gone hands on sooner to get this guy cuffed. At some point you have to decide the guy isn't gonna comply and you have to jump in....

    But even so that doesn't mean I think that what they did was excessive or "brutality".

    It seems like anybody and everybody watching any police use of force is whipping out cell phones and screaming BRUTALITY. Its as if the soundtrack of people yelling is influencing opinions more than what is actually seen.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/19/2014 7:44pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its as if the soundtrack of people yelling is influencing opinions more than what is actually seen.
    It's been like this since video cameras and the internet have become more accessible. The narrative hasn't changed in 50+ years. The more access the louder it has become. The difference is, it doesn't "stay in the hood" or local media like back in the day.
  10. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2014 9:43am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't see anything excessive here.
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