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  1. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2014 4:04pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    "Giving you their back" isn't really a concept that I encountered/encounter much in judo or sambo circles, as the position isn't inherently advantageous... as in you don't get 4 points for being there.

    Makes me wonder if the guy was trying to throw with makikomi.
    It sounds to me like a noob who was just turning for a forward throw without really effecting his uke balance. it is pretty common thing.

    The OP has some BJJ experience, so hence his use of "giving you their back".
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. Keej613 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2014 12:52pm


     Style: It's complicated.

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps I should have been more detailed and explained that, because of the way our classes are structured and because of all the tearing down / closing up we have to do at the end of class, I simply didn't get a chance to ask my sensei about it right then and there, although it certainly was my intention to ask him about it at my next class.

    That being said, if the most highly-regarded answer in a thread about basic and miscellaneous fighting techniques in the forum that says it's the place for newb questions and claims to have a more lenient policy to encourage participation and generate content is ask your sensei then I question the need for this forum.

    I might not question it had the advice been structured along the lines of "You should probably ask your sensei first but some things you might consider or ask him about include ______" but, especially after reading the two READ ME sticky threads before posint, if the de facto best answer to most noob questions is "ask your sensei / instructor" then what's the point of this forum?
  3. blackmonk is online now
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2014 12:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keej613 View Post
    Perhaps I should have been more detailed and explained that, because of the way our classes are structured and because of all the tearing down / closing up we have to do at the end of class, I simply didn't get a chance to ask my sensei about it right then and there, although it certainly was my intention to ask him about it at my next class.

    That being said, if the most highly-regarded answer in a thread about basic and miscellaneous fighting techniques in the forum that says it's the place for newb questions and claims to have a more lenient policy to encourage participation and generate content is ask your sensei then I question the need for this forum.

    I might not question it had the advice been structured along the lines of "You should probably ask your sensei first but some things you might consider or ask him about include ______" but, especially after reading the two READ ME sticky threads before posint, if the de facto best answer to most noob questions is "ask your sensei / instructor" then what's the point of this forum?
    It was those kind of responses that caused me to quit posting for a very long time. I guess take comfort in the fact that it probably comes from good intentions...
  4. Keej613 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2014 12:57pm


     Style: It's complicated.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    It sounds to me like a noob who was just turning for a forward throw without really effecting his uke balance. it is pretty common thing.
    Exactly. The guy tries to off balance me towards my right but I maintain my balance. While he struggles, I'm able to off-balance him then make him over-rotate by pushing on his tricep, resulting in me being beside and/or behind him as he over turns.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    The OP has some BJJ experience, so hence his use of "giving you their back".
    Exactly.
  5. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2014 1:54pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keej613 View Post
    Perhaps I should have been more detailed and explained that, because of the way our classes are structured and because of all the tearing down / closing up we have to do at the end of class, I simply didn't get a chance to ask my sensei about it right then and there, although it certainly was my intention to ask him about it at my next class.

    That being said, if the most highly-regarded answer in a thread about basic and miscellaneous fighting techniques in the forum that says it's the place for newb questions and claims to have a more lenient policy to encourage participation and generate content is ask your sensei then I question the need for this forum.

    I might not question it had the advice been structured along the lines of "You should probably ask your sensei first but some things you might consider or ask him about include ______" but, especially after reading the two READ ME sticky threads before posint, if the de facto best answer to most noob questions is "ask your sensei / instructor" then what's the point of this forum?
    Don't get your noobish panties in a bunch. Ask any question you want, doesn't mean you like the answer(s) you get. I'm not a moderator, just a cranky old judo teacher.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2014 1:56pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    It was those kind of responses that caused me to quit posting for a very long time. I guess take comfort in the fact that it probably comes from good intentions...
    Is there supposed to be sarcasm on/off label on your post ?

    Come on, he got an answer to his question, one of many possible answers. If you think my response is not legit, I'm all ears.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2014 2:00pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keej613 View Post
    Exactly. The guy tries to off balance me towards my right but I maintain my balance. While he struggles, I'm able to off-balance him then make him over-rotate by pushing on his tricep, resulting in me being beside and/or behind him as he over turns.



    Exactly.
    I admire your self control in that situation. I've seen too many beginners just try anyway possible to slam their uke to the ground however possible when confronted with that position/situation.

    It's perfectly OK to push them away and re-grip without countering until you get some instruction. This is especially true if there are a lot o guys on the mat and space is limited, or it is tachi waza (standing) practice only.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2014 2:02pm


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The point of randori is not to win, it is to learn. If every time a white belt makes a bad turn in he gets stuffed with taniotoshi or an RNC, he isn't going to learn. If he can't make the throw just let him step out or you can step around. Reset and try your own throw. If he can make the throw, don't make a heroic effort to get out of it, just take the fall.
  9. CrackFox is offline
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2014 2:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keej613 View Post
    Perhaps I should have been more detailed and explained that, because of the way our classes are structured and because of all the tearing down / closing up we have to do at the end of class, I simply didn't get a chance to ask my sensei about it right then and there, although it certainly was my intention to ask him about it at my next class.
    This might sound like it's a bit forward, and if you're new there it might feel weird, but trust me it's probably the best way to go about it: Just grab your coaches attention when this situation comes up in randori, and get him to go through it with you then and there. Obviously, you need to be mindful that your partner probably wants to do his thing, and your coach has to give attention to everyone else in the class, but if it's something that is really sticking you and neither you or your partner are getting much out of the round, you might as well pause and ask a question.
  10. Plasma is online now
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    Bullshido Admin

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2014 4:20pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keej613 View Post
    Perhaps I should have been more detailed and explained that, because of the way our classes are structured and because of all the tearing down / closing up we have to do at the end of class, I simply didn't get a chance to ask my sensei about it right then and there, although it certainly was my intention to ask him about it at my next class.

    That being said, if the most highly-regarded answer in a thread about basic and miscellaneous fighting techniques in the forum that says it's the place for newb questions and claims to have a more lenient policy to encourage participation and generate content is ask your sensei then I question the need for this forum.

    I might not question it had the advice been structured along the lines of "You should probably ask your sensei first but some things you might consider or ask him about include ______" but, especially after reading the two READ ME sticky threads before posint, if the de facto best answer to most noob questions is "ask your sensei / instructor" then what's the point of this forum?
    If I recall correctly, you posted this in the JMA forum. The TMA forums were created as a place for TMA students where they can discuss cultural and historical claims, not for technique threads. I moved it to the more appropriate forum. Modding technique threads out of the TMA forums especially JMA has been ignored for a while because I was on hiatus. I am trying to reinforce them again.

    You are right. “Ask your instructor” seems like a cop out. I instructed Judo for several years and the mistake I repetitively made with new students is teaching something too advanced too early. While a Sumi Geashi off a snap down (front headlock) is something that works for me, I forget how many years it took to get to a point where I can make it work. So while I gave you advise on what I do in that situation, I left out that Sumi Gaeshi and Tani Otoshi are my 2 competition throws that I drilled thousands of times over the course of years. To me those movements are second nature, but BKR who has a lot more experience training Judo players, points out that its not a beginner technique set and it is unfair of me to even mention them.

    The fact that you are such a raw beginner, I think you should stop worrying about “winning” during randori. If they turn their back without getting your balance, use that to secure the grips you want and go for whatever throw your instructor is having you drill. If you don’t have time after class to ask your instructor, ask before class. If you can’t get a hold of your instructor, ask a senior student.

    Forums are great to discuss technique, but sometimes the answer will not be “Do X” and instead its “This is how you get the answer to X"
    Last edited by Plasma; 1/16/2014 4:23pm at .
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