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  1. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2014 8:14pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Uggggg....Advanced leg lock counter??

    Not sure if you guys can see this video by Kit Dale: "Advanced ankle lock counter from 50/50." He uploaded it on his Facebook, and I can't find it anywhere else to embed here. I hope you guys can see it.

    VIDEO

    He may be a great BJJ practitioner, but this video is severely lacking. It really got me going as it is an example of many of my pet peeves when it comes to grappling...and leg locks. So forgive my rant...

    This move (to me) is so contrived. He goes through multiple un-needed steps to address a simple (shitty) leg attack which can be addressed in much simpler and effective ways (even within IBJJF rules). Let's walk all the way around the block just to knock on my neighboor's front door...LOL.

    Simply, it makes zero sense to me to do all this when there is no leg control from the attacker in the first place (even if there was good leg control). BTW, how is this even a 50/50 position? Does'nt 50/50 involve matching leg triangles? Notice how straightening and rotating his leg in the beginning does not defend, but gives up a kneebar? Does anyone notice how he gives up his other leg for attack when he goes inverted? Why do all this when there are "simpler" more "basic" and "effective" defenses? Even with IBJJF rules, this is a horrible achilles lock set up.

    When leads me to my final comments:
    1) When you learn to defend unsound attacks, you learn unsound defense.
    2) More moving parts does not make a move advanced
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

    "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao
  2. Zapruder is offline
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    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2014 9:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have seen it several other places since that first encounter. THANK YOU FOR THE RANT!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost View Post
    Actually, I don't do it because I don't want people to be scammed - I do it because I enjoy kicking down the doors of Lies and Deceit and then forcibly fucking Fraud with the dildo of Truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    I don't care if they gave it to him because, he tickles butterfly butt-holes while wearing a pink frock.
  3. Aaron Fields is offline
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    One of Seattle's Bravest

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2014 12:10am


     Style: Cambo/jujutsu/judo

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To build of what Steve started, the truth more moving parts, and "what ifs," make it more unlikely that it will work. Grappling is not linear, it is dynamic, understand principles and the technique that come out of the principles.

    You can't chase techniques, because without the why and when the game will be hollow and mediocre at best.

    A second point is transparency with what you are doing is critical. Folks need to quit thinking they are original and just focus on being good. It is important that coaches can trace how, why, and where they learned what it is they are coaching. Simply copying something, often poorly, is bad news in the end. In addition, "I don't know, but lets figure it out," is a honest statement that sets you in the right direction.

    Aaron Fields
  4. blackmonk is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2014 10:18am

    supporting member
     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's just a circuitous way of using the berimbolo, or at least something berimbolo-esque. It's popular as hell right now.

    Re: Aaron on transparency: I've built a whole club around that very idea. "I don't know, but let's figure it out" is something commonly heard on our mats.
  5. Plasma is online now
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    Bullshido Administrator

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2014 12:08pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Bullshido's Ninja

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sambosteve View Post
    Not sure if you guys can see this video by Kit Dale: "Advanced ankle lock counter from 50/50." He uploaded it on his Facebook, and I can't find it anywhere else to embed here. I hope you guys can see it.

    VIDEO

    He may be a great BJJ practitioner, but this video is severely lacking. It really got me going as it is an example of many of my pet peeves when it comes to grappling...and leg locks. So forgive my rant...

    This move (to me) is so contrived. He goes through multiple un-needed steps to address a simple (shitty) leg attack which can be addressed in much simpler and effective ways (even within IBJJF rules). Let's walk all the way around the block just to knock on my neighboor's front door...LOL.

    Simply, it makes zero sense to me to do all this when there is no leg control from the attacker in the first place (even if there was good leg control). BTW, how is this even a 50/50 position? Does'nt 50/50 involve matching leg triangles? Notice how straightening and rotating his leg in the beginning does not defend, but gives up a kneebar? Does anyone notice how he gives up his other leg for attack when he goes inverted? Why do all this when there are "simpler" more "basic" and "effective" defenses? Even with IBJJF rules, this is a horrible achilles lock set up.

    When leads me to my final comments:
    1) When you learn to defend unsound attacks, you learn unsound defense.
    2) More moving parts does not make a move advanced
    50/50 started in No-Gi with matching Leg Triangles to protect the foot from the Heel Hook. With the Heel Hook disallowed in most Gi competitions, a lot of Jiu Jitsu people just let the foot hang out there. Anyone with a decent foot lock game makes them pay for it. But those are few are far between in Competition Jiu Jitsu. Usually when I finish an ankle lock in competition my opponents usually respond with "Yeah, we don't really learn those at my school." Lots of people use 50/50 to control Dynamic Guard Passers and little else I'm afraid.


    As for the technique itself. Its a Berimbolo entry from a Cross Ankle Lock. Put on the Boot, Escape the Leg control enough to Berimbolo. I am not a Berimbolo player, but people have a lot of success inverting under the leg and lever it to the back. I know when my opponent starts to Berimbolo I am in for a tough match.
  6. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2014 12:12pm

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     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    50/50 started in No-Gi with matching Leg Triangles to protect the foot from the Heel Hook. With the Heel Hook disallowed in most Gi competitions, a lot of Jiu Jitsu people just let the foot hang out there. Anyone with a decent foot lock game makes them pay for it. But those are few are far between in Competition Jiu Jitsu. Usually when I finish an ankle lock in competition my opponents usually respond with "Yeah, we don't really learn those at my school." Lots of people use 50/50 to control Dynamic Guard Passers and little else I'm afraid.


    As for the technique itself. Its a Berimbolo entry from a Cross Ankle Lock. Put on the Boot, Escape the Leg control enough to Berimbolo. I am not a Berimbolo player, but people have a lot of success inverting under the leg and lever it to the back. I know when my opponent starts to Berimbolo I am in for a tough match.
    When people invert like that on me, their foot or knee usually ends up in pain ;)
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

    "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao
  7. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/06/2014 2:37pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Bullshido's Ninja

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sambosteve View Post
    When people invert like that on me, their foot or knee usually ends up in pain ;)
    I have a feeling a lot of people usually feel pain in their foot or knee whether they invert or not with you Steve ;)

    The issue here really is the ability to “Reap the Knee” in BJJ terms. I find countering the Berimbolo inversion when you can control the free leg with inward pressure is very successful. However, when reaping is not an option in the rulset, diving for a toe hold or kneebar will usually end with your back taken. When constricted by that ruleset I have had recent success attacking the DLR hook.

    Keenan explains it really well IMO

  8. sambosteve is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/06/2014 10:11pm

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     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    I have a feeling a lot of people usually feel pain in their foot or knee whether they invert or not with you Steve ;)

    The issue here really is the ability to “Reap the Knee” in BJJ terms. I find countering the Berimbolo inversion when you can control the free leg with inward pressure is very successful. However, when reaping is not an option in the rulset, diving for a toe hold or kneebar will usually end with your back taken. When constricted by that ruleset I have had recent success attacking the DLR hook.

    Keenan explains it really well IMO

    Well, I hear you, but I rarely concern myself with trying too much to come up with funky solutions to a ruleeset which promotes bad habbits. I will check this vid when I am not on my phone. But, reaping was a non issue in the vid I posted. I also disagree regarding your reaping/kneebar/having your back taken assertion.
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

    "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao
  9. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2014 11:12pm

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     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I should clarify and say that my comments about developing bad habbits:

    I don't mean to suggest that we don't train for or compete in IBJJF rules events. I am a believer in competing under different rule sets. It just makes for better grapplers who can adapt to different challenges.

    Having said that, we don't change our leg attack game to something unsound just to fit IBJJF rules. We look at how to win with other parts of our game that does fit in those rules. We don't have to sacrifice a training a solid leg attack game for a mediocre one just to fit rules which encourage poor leg attack principles. I would rather my guys win with solid armbars than weal leg locks. That is what I meant in my original post by: "When you learn to defend unsound attacks, you learn unsound defense."

    In the end, I train my guys and gals to be fundamentally solid all-around grapplers who I hope will be able to function and adjust based on scenario without giving up too much of their core game. In that, we develop solid game in all ranges so we can adapt without losing our core principles of how to grapple.

    So, for my mind, it is better for us to win IBJJF events with better takedowns, better positioning and better top half submissions. For example, when NYCS won the team cup (adult no-gi) at the Good Fight Winter Open last month, we did it without a single leg lock.

    Thankfully we don't do IBJJF rules events too often
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

    "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao
  10. The Villain is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2014 11:14pm

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     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is dangerously bad. The boot is a good way to break your leg. When they reap, it just snaps because the boot cuts mobility in the knee. One leg lock injury on my watch and thats how it happened. Yes, the IBJJF will protect you from that, but we don't need to start grappling based on the referee. I saw him do another where he rolled INTO a heel hook to escape. Once again, ref to the rescue. Not a fan.
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