223537 Bullies, 3748 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 14
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. baby_cart is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    367

    Posted On:
    1/01/2014 3:44pm


     Style: ex-BJJ, ex-TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Krotty History: Choki Motobu, earliest BSnet-esque Bully?

    Trolling about the interwebs and such, I came across this:

    http://www.karatebyjesse.com/quotes-...-the-mongoose/

    It contained such gems as this gong sau:
    Quote Originally Posted by Choki Motobu
    When I first came to Tokyo, there was another Okinawan [Funakoshi] who was teaching Karate there quite actively. When in Okinawa I hadn’t even heard of his name! Upon guidance of another Okinawan, I went to the place he was teaching youngsters, where he was running his mouth, bragging. Upon seeing this, I grabbed his hand, took up a position of kake-kumite and said, ‘what will you do?

    He [Funakoshi] was hesitant and I thought to punch him would be too much, so I threw him with kote-gaeshi (a wrist throw common to jujutsu and aikido) at which time he fell to the ground with a large thud. He got up, his face red and said ‘once more.’ And again I threw him with kote-gaeshi. He did not relent and asked for another bout, so he was thrown the same way for a third time.
    And a BSnet-esque critique for a mouthboxer
    Quote Originally Posted by Choki Motobu

    “He [Funakoshi] can only copy the masters elegance by performing the outer portion of what they taught him, and uses that to mislead others into believing he is an expert when he is not.”

    “His [Funakoshi's] demonstrations were simply implausible. This kind of person is a good-for nothing scalawag. In fact, his tricky behavior and eloquent explanation easily deceives people. To the naïve person, Funakoshi’s demonstration and explanation represents the real art!


    Nothing is more harmful to the world than a martial art that is not effective in actual self-defense. If that stupid person opens a dojo then let him fight with me and I’ll make him go back to Okinawa. That would be a real benefit to the world!”

    Any karate history buffs out there? Is there any more to this story?
  2. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar

    MADE OF STEEL!

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    3,428

    Posted On:
    1/01/2014 8:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a black belt in Funakoshi's system, I'm inclined to agree with Motobu.
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.
  3. CapnMunchh is offline
    CapnMunchh's Avatar

    Welterweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    792

    Posted On:
    1/01/2014 11:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've never known a practitioner of Okinawan karate that had anything good to say about Funakoshi.

    Interesting that Motobu uses kotegaishe 3 times. That's a technique often used in Aikido -- the allegedly useless MA.
    “A nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its laws made by cowards and its wars fought by fools.” ― Thucydides
  4. Plasma is offline
    Plasma's Avatar

    Bullshido Admin

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,058

    Posted On:
    1/02/2014 2:24am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    I've never known a practitioner of Okinawan karate that had anything good to say about Funakoshi.

    Interesting that Motobu uses kotegaishe 3 times. That's a technique often used in Aikido -- the allegedly useless MA.
    Kote Geashi pretty much exists in every Japanese Jujutsu Ryu-ha.
  5. CapnMunchh is offline
    CapnMunchh's Avatar

    Welterweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    792

    Posted On:
    1/02/2014 8:53am

    supporting member
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    Kote Geashi pretty much exists in every Japanese Jujutsu Ryu-ha.
    I know, its a common technique. Sorry, Aikido takes so many lumps around here, it was a knee jerk on my part when I saw a chance to stick up for it. But, the last thing I want to do is derail this into yet another Aikido argument.

    Let me rephrase that. Its interesting that in this story Motobu manages to use the same common technique on Funakoshi not once, but at least twice and maybe three times (3d time isn't clear). Funakoshi doesn't have a great rep among Okinawan karateka, but I can't believe that he was the Bob Yoder of Okinawa -- so is the story credible?
    “A nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its laws made by cowards and its wars fought by fools.” ― Thucydides
  6. Stickybomb is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    446

    Posted On:
    1/02/2014 12:11pm


     Style: judo, boxing -noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think that everyone who tried aikido knows that those levers have power to destroy limbs. The only problem is, that you'll almost never get such a hold on a person who is moving around or counters quick enough.
    From what I understand Funakoshi was all surprised when Mobutu just came and grabbed his wrist and he never really got what is happening, until he was on the ground.
    The next time they apparently started from the same position and if Choki was super-fast, and executed kote-gaeshi close to kata perfection he could do it again.


    In some situations anything can be useful. I showed my ex how to break from wrist grab and she used it on some jerk, who was a bit too pushy with his affection. She immediately popped her hand out of his grab and thus stopped him dead in his track. The dude probably thought 'holy sh+t, she must be trained in something and is therefore dangerous' or just plainly got it. It would never work against a serious assailant.

    Even poor techniques (that means no excuse for mcdojo teachers) can sometimes give an edge, but of course person with better system and better training will have an enormous advantage. Especially if he/she's committed enough and has some natural talent.
    Last edited by Stickybomb; 1/02/2014 12:46pm at .
  7. Tetsumusha is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    63

    Posted On:
    1/02/2014 1:27pm


     Style: Karate, w/ a side of judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Funakoshi was sent to mainland Japan to promote karate as a martial sport as a way to prevent it from being lost to the Japanization of Okinawa, and he was sent because he was well educated and well-spoken, being fluent in Japanese and knowledgeable about Japanese customs. How good he was at karate wasn't really much of an issue. I believe his contemporaries considered him of "average" skill and knowledge--I think I remember an interview, or perhaps an excerpt from a book, where something to that effect was stated.

    Motobu and Funakoshi liked each other about as well as Rousey and Tate, though, so in all likelihood Motobu exaggerated a bit about Funakoshi's lack of skill. Okinawa wouldn't have sent someone COMPLETELY inept to Japan to represent karate, but they didn't have to send an expert, either--especially since they weren't too keen to teach the Japanese anything truly effective, when they could keep that to themselves. Many Okinawans, particularly those of shizoku ranks (which is the class that most martial artists came from) were very unhappy with Japanese rule. It would be reasonable to assume that they would be willing to send a karate instructor of average skill to the mainland to generate interest in sport karate, while they kept the effective stuff close to home.
    Last edited by Tetsumusha; 1/02/2014 1:31pm at .
  8. BJMills is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    454

    Posted On:
    1/02/2014 1:27pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Could also be a case of 'he
    Doesn't have TEH R3AL KROTTY!'

    Not like okinawan styles dominate in the tournament circuit, or were more predominant in producing successful kick boxers (back when everyone outside of Thailand had a krotty background first). And while I'm sure some MMA fighter somewhere has an okinawan style in his background it's not exactly integral to that game either. Hell, at least the shotokan guys have Machida to nutride.

    So while its possible the story is true, the empirical evidence as it stands today leads me to believe otherwise.
  9. CapnMunchh is offline
    CapnMunchh's Avatar

    Welterweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    792

    Posted On:
    1/02/2014 2:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    Not like okinawan styles dominate in the tournament circuit, or were more predominant in producing successful kick boxers (back when everyone outside of Thailand had a krotty background first).
    I'd say that's precisely because Shotokan was promoted as sport karate, it became more widespread and its practioners engaged in sport matches, so Shotokan was better suited for transition to the sport of kickboxing.
    “A nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its laws made by cowards and its wars fought by fools.” ― Thucydides
  10. 1point2 is online now
    1point2's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,104

    Posted On:
    1/02/2014 4:31pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    baby_cart, you might find this thread of similar Japanese martial arts philosophy interesting. I encourage you to add these Motobu quotes to that thread.

    Considering that Okinawan karate competition at that time had completely devolved from the feudal-Japanese approach of dojo challenges to, well, kata dance-offs, I would not be surprised that they sent politician-extraordinaire Funakoshi as a representative, nor do I disbelieve that Motobu (well-known to pick street fights and accept challenge matches) kicked Funakoshi's sorry kata-loving, kumite-hating butt without breaking a sweat.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.