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  1. marconi720 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2013 1:46pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Avoiding what happened to Silva

    I suspect many other people on Bullshido cringed a bit when Silva's leg was destroyed by Weidman's knee. I spent a few seconds thinking of whether I've been at risk of that, and the answer is a definite yes. I'd like some thoughts on how to avoid this, and whether this will change MMA strategy in general.

    A few things went through my mind after seeing that:

    1.) Always kick lightly a few times to gauge your opponent's reaction, seeing if and how they check your kicks.
    2.) Mix up the targets, both sides on high, middle and low.
    3.) Fake a kick, and then kick below/through the check to the other leg.
    4.) Kick lower on the leg.

    Regarding #2, are there some good pointers on disguising the target of your kick, so they don't know where it will hit until the last second? Increased flexibility would help, so you don't lean backward for high kicks, but I wonder if a very slight chambering of the leg could help. It would be less powerful, but it seems to work for Stephen Thompson.

    As far as MMA competition, does anyone thing this injury happening to a striker as amazing as Silva will make people change their gameplans, either focusing more on checking or being more reluctant to kick? And is someone like Edson Barboza just too fast and unpredictably for people to do a hard check against him?
  2. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2014 12:02pm

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     Style: 柔術

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thread approved.

    From what I understand with my limited knowledge of Muay Thai (6 months) is Weidman Leg Check used the top of the shin (thicker) rather than the lower part (thiner). The Bone to Bone contact is what caused the injury.
  3. Dork Angel is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2014 2:01pm


     Style: Jujitsu Aikido Bodycombat

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, looks like the thinner part of Silva's leg hit the thicker part of his opponent's leg with enough force to cause the break. I don't know whether it requires a change in tactics or whether to file it under "**** happens".
  4. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2014 3:02pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dork Angel View Post
    Yeah, looks like the thinner part of Silva's leg hit the thicker part of his opponent's leg with enough force to cause the break. I don't know whether it requires a change in tactics or whether to file it under "**** happens".
    I would hope it would serve as a cautionary tale for speed kickers. It's a faster kick than turning the hip all the way over, but if the opponent uses the knee check that Weidman employed, it isn't fast enough.

    It takes nothing to pivot the leg inwards and deny the the strike the angle if it's been trained into the reactions, whereas if the hip is engaged during the kick, it won't be coming from an angle the knee/upper shin can really get to quickly.

    I don't think Silva fully respected Weidman's striking, even after the 1st fight. Something tells me were he up against a "striker" he'd have used proper form.

    There may be a time to use that kind of low kick, perhaps if the opponents stance it too wide, reducing their ability to pivot/check...but that wasn't it.

    Props to Weidman. It's nice to see the winner evolving.

    EDIT: Watched the break again, and it was more Silva mistake against solid stance than a check even.
    Last edited by bobyclumsyninja; 1/11/2014 3:07pm at .
  5. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2014 4:36pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by marconi720 View Post
    are there some good pointers on disguising the target of your kick, so they don't know where it will hit until the last second?
    This is one of the best kick KOs in the history of UFC, and I think it displays what you're asking about.

    In my opinion it's an extremely subtle hand feint followed by a kick nobody sees coming, especially Couture.

  6. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2014 5:19pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    Thread approved.

    From what I understand with my limited knowledge of Muay Thai (6 months) is Weidman Leg Check used the top of the shin (thicker) rather than the lower part (thiner). The Bone to Bone contact is what caused the injury.
    Thread approved? Wow you're being merciful. I saw this thread originally and I couldn't approve it. The suggestions sound like their coming from a point of hypothesis instead of experienced fact.

    This:
    I would hope it would serve as a cautionary tale for speed kickers. It's a faster kick than turning the hip all the way over, but if the opponent uses the knee check that Weidman employed, it isn't fast enough.

    It takes nothing to pivot the leg inwards and deny the the strike the angle if it's been trained into the reactions, whereas if the hip is engaged during the kick, it won't be coming from an angle the knee/upper shin can really get to quickly.

    I don't think Silva fully respected Weidman's striking, even after the 1st fight. Something tells me were he up against a "striker" he'd have used proper form.
  7. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2014 5:52pm

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     Style: 柔術

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    Thread approved? Wow you're being merciful. I saw this thread originally and I couldn't approve it. The suggestions sound like their coming from a point of hypothesis instead of experienced fact.

    This:
    We have been so harsh with the advanced technique forum moderation they have been basically dead. I am trying a different tact, newb/general questions go to Basic Technique and Specific Discussion go to Advanced Technique Forum. Nothing is stopping posters from telling the OP that they are wrong and why, as that generates discussion.
    Last edited by Plasma; 1/11/2014 5:56pm at .
  8. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/11/2014 6:05pm

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     Style: 柔術

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    I would hope it would serve as a cautionary tale for speed kickers. It's a faster kick than turning the hip all the way over, but if the opponent uses the knee check that Weidman employed, it isn't fast enough.

    It takes nothing to pivot the leg inwards and deny the the strike the angle if it's been trained into the reactions, whereas if the hip is engaged during the kick, it won't be coming from an angle the knee/upper shin can really get to quickly.

    I don't think Silva fully respected Weidman's striking, even after the 1st fight. Something tells me were he up against a "striker" he'd have used proper form.

    There may be a time to use that kind of low kick, perhaps if the opponents stance it too wide, reducing their ability to pivot/check...but that wasn't it.

    Props to Weidman. It's nice to see the winner evolving.

    EDIT: Watched the break again, and it was more Silva mistake against solid stance than a check even.

    So, the issue was Silva throwing a round kick without pivoting the base leg and turning his hips into the kick? Therefore the angle of the kick was more at a 45 degree angle instead of a 90 degree angle which allowed Weidman to catch the kick on his shin?
    Last edited by Plasma; 1/11/2014 6:23pm at .
  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2014 6:55pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    So, the issue was Silva throwing a round kick without pivoting the base leg and turning his hips into the kick? Therefore the angle of the kick was more at a 45 degree angle instead of a 90 degree angle which allowed Weidman to catch the kick on his shin?
    Rather flicking it than throwing it if Bobby doesn't mind me answering.
  10. wetware is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2014 7:13pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dork Angel View Post
    Yeah, looks like the thinner part of Silva's leg hit the thicker part of his opponent's leg with enough force to cause the break. I don't know whether it requires a change in tactics or whether to file it under "**** happens".
    Not only that, but a point in Silva's leg that is closer to the middle of the bone made contact with a point that is essentially on the end of Weidman's bone. I don't feel like an in-depth engineering-style stress analysis is warranted here. I think the vast majority of us broke boards in kiddy krotty and know this.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    EDIT: Watched the break again, and it was more Silva mistake against solid stance than a check even.
    Eh, I don't buy this at all. I've been taught to check opposite side kicks in precisely this manner, especially when retreating. Which Weidman was at the time.

    Edit: Not to say Silva didn't make a mistake, the kick was not well thrown. But taking away credit due for a well-executed kick check to chalk it up to "Silva Screwed Up" is disingenuous.
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