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  1. kamadul is offline

    Registered Member

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    Dec 2013
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    259

    Posted On:
    1/01/2014 11:12pm


     Style: Judo, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    The way it works here..NY...is that "police calls" wont impact an establishments liquor license, but referrals to the State Liquor Authority filed by police will. If an establishment is a frequent problem those referrals will be filed. If the bouncer is in the right we don't.
    That may be how it worked here as well. I only know what the owner told me.
  2. erezb is offline

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,294

    Posted On:
    1/02/2014 5:39am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We had police or paramilitary police out side anyway, they secured the street against terrorists and suicide bombers, they had a barricade a few meters from us, so either they saw the whole thing or you just yelled. But, to involve police was a last resort thing, and usually only the club owner did that. Calling the police on one of those thugs would mean a personal grudge...The owners payed protection so they were covered against that. Usually there were a few heavies siting on the inner bar with a few hooker looking young girls, dancing for them with dead eyes. Even in student parties i promoted we had to let them in with zero hassle...i guessed their occupation.
    But they were generous tippers and made literally no problems, ever, just middle aged guys looking at their "girls" dancing while drinking expensive whisky.
  3. Vieux Normand is offline

    Senior Member

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    Jun 2007
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2014 11:51am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    BTW some payback stories, i donno how it goes where you guys come from, but here paybacks are real.
    It all depends on where you work, but also how you work. Most payback threats may be hot air, but there's always a percentage of threats (a percentage that differs from venue to venue) that materialize and that one must be ready for.

    Wherever you are working, just remember that the most asshole doorman will generally get the most threats, just because of the way he does the job: no initial politeness when there is a chance to use it, an over-eagerness to get physical when it may not be necessary, unreasonable demands, and so on.

    There are, however, a minority of patrons who may see courtesy as weakness, so the balance must be kept between politeness and firmness, between diplomacy and combative efficacy.

    Once you're known as someone who does the job right, venue regulars will cease to see you as being somehow "against" them and will then more likely be on your side when somebody does try and threaten you. Same goes for the local LEOs. Once you have both informal and formal "system" backup, you're less likely to be threatened with payback than an asshole bouncer who--being an asshole--has basically isolated himself. The loner is always an easier target.

    As well, train well and train hard. Not only does that make you more resilient (even though there are, of course, no guarantees), but it allows you to leave the aggression where it belongs: in the gym. You will come across as effective and conditioned, as well as being someone on an even keel.

    As mentioned, there are no guarantees and every job with a use-of-force possibility can incur threats of retaliation. While the possibility of retaliatory attacks cannot be eliminated entirely, they can be reduced via the way you train, prepare for, and do the job. Remember also that stupidity and threats from imbeciles can occur anywhere, regardless of the work one does.
  4. RynoGreene is offline

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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    223

    Posted On:
    1/02/2014 3:38pm


     Style: FMA/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    Most guys just wanted to preserve their ego, and I'd try to make sure they never looked like a punk in front of their friends. I find that if you give a guy a way to retreat without looking like a bitch, he will take it more often than not.
    This is an excellent point. I used to work in a max security juvenile institution, and this was a critical approach to de-escalating a situation. Stern but polite was a great approach for me there. I tended to like to use a strong physical presence, but very polite, but firm, verbal suggestions.
  5. patfromlogan is offline
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    Heavyweight

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    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hilo Island of Hawaii
    Posts
    8,850

    Posted On:
    1/30/2014 3:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    No. If you need a vest to work door, quit that job. You do get threatened a lot, though.

    I was actually always really nice, even when tossing a guy. I'd get them outside and apologize, blame my manager and tell them I'd get them in free next week (lying, of course. If I tossed you, you were done for good). Most guys just wanted to preserve their ego, and I'd try to make sure they never looked like a punk in front of their friends. I find that if you give a guy a way to retreat without looking like a bitch, he will take it more often than not.

    The super-belligerent types were usually too drunk to remember me, or I just took the chance. I got threatened a lot, and one guy was waiting by my car one night. But he lost his nerve when I started chatting amicably with him.
    You and Vieux Norman reflect the attitude of Shihan Perales, an ex-bouncer I trained under. He's a multi system bb and when I told stories about him years ago I got slammed at this site with accusations of talking bullshit making it up, and being a liar.

    He said in the couple years of bouncing he only really fought once, tried to hold a guy in an under arm head lock while being lifted into the air (he's big) and yelling for help. Most of the time he said he'd just talk. When I asked him about bouncing he said typically he'd do this; he walked up to me calmly and gently hugged me and leaned in and whispered, "Hey buddy, everyone is looking at you. Aren't you embarrassed?" He said most of the time that was about all it took, but if the guy gave him trouble he already had his arms pinned. If it was a group against one he'd have the other bouncers take care of the one guy and he'd turn to the group and say, "That guy is a jerk, I don't blame you for being pissed off at him." Then the group would all agree with him, and then he'd apologize and tell them that by the rules of the club he DID have to ask them to leave and that he was sorry to have to enforce this rule because it was so unfair but please come back tomorrow. He'd play a game sometimes in class to see how many of us he could keep on the ground and said that after putting a drunk on the floor a half dozen times they get tired, and they don't know how to fall.

    Mostly he said that he was friendly and respectful and that he could do that because he wasn't afraid of being hit, having been hit thousands of times in the dojo. The other bouncers were often violent and he said it was based on fear. And they often pissed customers off and got hit later, like on a crowded floor, and couldn't figure out who'd hit them. He said he never hit anyone and mostly just used his mouth to defuse situations. It was funny because he was disgusted by the drunks, but he didn't let that show and said it was like playing poker, you don't show your cards and you keep a game face, you play to win, ego has nothing to do with it. Shihan is a master of unbalancing his opponents (I remember him palm striking my hip once when I was kicking and I stumbled across the floor and smacked the wall - and he was one of the few mas I've known who had stand up locks down so he could control without injuries. He taught that once the uke had one foot lifted it meant it was over, that uke couldn't hit hard and all you had to do was maintain, you didn't need to hit, throw or lock. But then he is shihan level.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  6. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/31/2014 3:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan View Post
    You and Vieux Norman reflect the attitude of Shihan Perales, an ex-bouncer I trained under. He's a multi system bb and when I told stories about him years ago I got slammed at this site with accusations of talking bullshit making it up, and being a liar.
    Must have been before I first signed on; I don't recall it.

    It must be remembered that every job requires things not necessarily needed in other occupations. Those who have not been bouncers may include people whose interactions with them have been negative (for a whole host of possible reasons). There will also be those who have never done the job and therefore may not get the fact that, as a specialized occupation, it requires abilities that not every martial artist (of any kind) will get a handle on just from the in-gym training--so that anything that seems outside of what they're used to in the gym may come across as BS.

    Agreed, in any case, on fear as the basis of the overly-aggressive attitude of many n00b bouncers. That's why effectively-trained people are best at the job: they keep an even keel in the face of all sorts of threats and other provocations.
  7. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
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    12,507

    Posted On:
    1/31/2014 5:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only time I've had to drag someone out of a place was at a house party in college. Curiously enough, he wanted to bolt back inside too. He was harassing a girl who lived in the house, and had several huge, intimidating guys hanging out with her. Our mark hooked up with her recently and thought they had some sort of relationship now, but she didn't share his feelings. They got to arguing and I got the feeling the big dudes were about to escort him out with extreme prejudice, so I got behind him and grabbed him in a half nelson/collar choke, pulled him off balance, and marched him outside leaning backwards. We sat outside where he yelled at me to let him go, and I explained to him that I just saved him from a much ruder extraction by a dozen huge athletes. I let him go and he vowed to be back later. It occurred to me what a thankless job a bouncer must be.
  8. kamadul is offline

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    Dec 2013
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    259

    Posted On:
    1/31/2014 5:52pm


     Style: Judo, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    The only time I've had to drag someone out of a place was at a house party in college. Curiously enough, he wanted to bolt back inside too. He was harassing a girl who lived in the house, and had several huge, intimidating guys hanging out with her. Our mark hooked up with her recently and thought they had some sort of relationship now, but she didn't share his feelings. They got to arguing and I got the feeling the big dudes were about to escort him out with extreme prejudice, so I got behind him and grabbed him in a half nelson/collar choke, pulled him off balance, and marched him outside leaning backwards. We sat outside where he yelled at me to let him go, and I explained to him that I just saved him from a much ruder extraction by a dozen huge athletes. I let him go and he vowed to be back later. It occurred to me what a thankless job a bouncer must be.
    Not completely thankless. Generally the bartenders and other staff greatly appreciate you and what you do. The regulars too. Since those are the only people that really matter, it's not so bad.
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