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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    These Crutches Are For A Friend: Seattle bus passengers overpower armed robber

    Seattle bus passengers overpower armed robber


    SEATTLE, Wash. A group of Seattle bus passengers overpowered an armed robber, and police have the video evidence to prove it.







    The Seattle Police Department released this surveillance video of the Nov. 25 incident this week. In the footage, you can see a masked man boarding the bus then standing up and pointing his gun in a passenger's face.

    That's when the passenger made a move to grab the weapon and pushed the robber down the aisle, throwing punches. Other passengers joined in, trying to take the would-be robber down.

    The suspect, 19-year-old Trevonnte Brown, is charged with first-degree robbery and attempted armed robbery.
    He is being held in the King County Jail on $350,000 bail.

    http://kdvr.com/2013/12/19/video-sea...-armed-robber/

    That could have turned out really badly don't you think?

  2. KiwiPhil889 is online now

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2013 11:16pm


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    It looked totally instinctive.

    When the guy looked up and saw the gun in his face he seemed to basically try to swipe it away out of reaction and then just went with it. It looks like he striped the weapon from the robbers hand first attempt and jammed it in his own pocket.

    It looked totally instinctive.

    When the guy looked up and saw the gun in his face he seemed to basically try to swipe it away out of reaction and then just went with it. It looks like he striped the weapon from the robbers hand first attempt and jammed it in his own pocket.
  3. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2013 11:49pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, real talk:
    A fair number of these videos have now collected, in which someone threatens another person with a firearm, and the other person wrestles it away from them.
    In almost none of them is the defender harmed. In most of the footage I've seen, such as the above video, the gun doesn't even go off.
    Fighting gunmen while unarmed definitely seems like a candidate for the "dangerous activities" category, but it seems like most of the people who do it are coming out unharmed.
    Is this a flaw in the data? Are we just not seeing the unsuccessful attempts to wrestle guns away from attackers? Is our sample size too small? Or is it possible that disarming a gunman isn't actually as risky as I might otherwise believe?
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2013 12:47am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    Is this a flaw in the data? Are we just not seeing the unsuccessful attempts to wrestle guns away from attackers? Is our sample size too small? Or is it possible that disarming a gunman isn't actually as risky as I might otherwise believe?
    I suspect this particular gunman probably never intended to pull the trigger, and didn't expect anyone would actually try to stop him.
  5. ghost55 is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2013 12:51am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I suspect this particular gunman probably never intended to pull the trigger, and didn't expect anyone would actually try to stop him.
    Probably. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of people that commit armed robbery are not actually planning (or even psychologically capable) of killing their targets. Waving a gun around and taking someones wallet is one thing. Shooting them at point-blank range is another.
  6. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2013 1:12am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Probably. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of people that commit armed robbery are not actually planning (or even psychologically capable) of killing their targets. Waving a gun around and taking someones wallet is one thing. Shooting them at point-blank range is another.
    No way to know whether the ones that don't shoot because they get what they want were capable of doing so. I tend to think the instinctive reaction was important. Simple, fast, no tension, no telegraphing. If the victim had studied MA and tried some of these more complicated disarms, he'd have had a better chance of being shot:

  7. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2013 1:46am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    Is this a flaw in the data? Are we just not seeing the unsuccessful attempts to wrestle guns away from attackers? Is our sample size too small? Or is it possible that disarming a gunman isn't actually as risky as I might otherwise believe?
    I checked out the FBI crime stats. In 2011, an estimated 1,203,564 violent crimes occurred nationwide. Aggravated assaults accounted for the most violent crimes at 62.4%. Robbery comprised 29.4%, forcible rape accounted for 6.9%, and murder accounted for 1.2%. Firearms were used in 67.7 percent of the nationís murders, 41.3 percent of robberies, and 21.2 percent of aggravated assaults.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr.../violent-crime

    A few gun successful gun disarms on You Tube are not telling the full story.
  8. RealFolkBlues is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2013 3:33am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    Is this a flaw in the data? Are we just not seeing the unsuccessful attempts to wrestle guns away from attackers?
    I'd wager it's mostly this. They can't show those attempts, if they have them on video. It's like anything else you end up seeing a lot of in the news. Calling out the isolated examples make it seem like they're the rule rather than the exceptions. At work I am accosted with the 24 hour news networks constantly, and so I've argued this point a few times with others. Violence is at an all-time low, but you wouldn't know that by watching the news.

    Probably, most unarmed attempts to disarm guns end badly, or at least not as well as this one. On the other hand, it might be the right thing to do try if you have no other option. This guy probably could have just given the robber his phone and wallet and went about his business, which would been the smarter thing to do, if not near as badass. Meh. I'm glad it worked out the way it did.
  9. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2013 10:26am

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFolkBlues View Post
    Probably, most unarmed attempts to disarm guns end badly, or at least not as well as this one. On the other hand, it might be the right thing to do try if you have no other option. This guy probably could have just given the robber his phone and wallet and went about his business, which would been the smarter thing to do, if not near as badass. Meh. I'm glad it worked out the way it did.
    Penn & Teller's gun defense:

  10. Permalost is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2013 1:31pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    So, real talk:
    A fair number of these videos have now collected, in which someone threatens another person with a firearm, and the other person wrestles it away from them.
    In almost none of them is the defender harmed. In most of the footage I've seen, such as the above video, the gun doesn't even go off.
    Fighting gunmen while unarmed definitely seems like a candidate for the "dangerous activities" category, but it seems like most of the people who do it are coming out unharmed.
    Is this a flaw in the data? Are we just not seeing the unsuccessful attempts to wrestle guns away from attackers? Is our sample size too small? Or is it possible that disarming a gunman isn't actually as risky as I might otherwise believe?
    I think the results may be skewed by Youtube and its contributors avoiding Faces of Death type stuff.
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