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  1. Tacitus is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/08/2014 11:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Crazy Monkey, BJJ, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Strange double post thing
    Last edited by Tacitus; 5/09/2014 12:09am at . Reason: Double post
  2. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/09/2014 3:39am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    That's your opinion. I tend to respect the family that created and us the beautiful art of BJJ. And no offense intended, I tend to take their opinion a little more seriously than you.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Why? Because both pressure test through rolling.
    Rolling/sparring is not equal to pressure testing.
    Rolling is learning. Its not testing. Its about finding out the timing and what MAY work for you in a stressful situation. Rolling doesn't include the cocktail of chemicals that go through your brain when you get into a truly stressful situation. It doesn't start the fight or flight response. It doesn't test you under pressure. It is typically done with the same set of people day in and day out.
    Think of all the people you have encountered that are great in the comfort of their own gym rolling and sparring with their training partners that fail miserably and choke when they go and compete. It happens with any sort of competition. People who are great at home but when the pressure is on they freeze up. So no practicing is not pressure testing.

    Rolling is not pressure testing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Yeah, pressure testing is necessary. As I say, I don't think competition is the only form of pressure testing. It can be a good one though.
    I will admit that competition isn't the ONLY way. However what needs to be included in pressure testing is pressure. The ability to fail at it. One can't fail at sparring( or at least not in this sense). So sure you might be able to claim a belt test is a form of pressure testing and maybe a few other things but these are all minor things and in the grand scheme of things. Beyond the personal level. To have any sort of integrity at the Art level that art needs to include competing. At the very minim inter school competition and preferably inter discipline ones.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Everyone pressure tests along a spectrum.
    This is certainly true. I am fine with looking at it in that way. However for it to even fall onto the spectrum their has to be a competitive component.
    For example the Dog brothers




    do not host formal competions their are no declared winners or losers but they are doing something a bit more than "sparing" they are fighting to prove something to themselves. Where as sparing is about learning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    if you are going to come down on a particular practitioner for not being good enough for not competing in MMA, as well as suggesting that everyone who doesn't practice in this way can't
    Really comes down to their claims. If I go to a BJJ gym and they claim to be a great BJJ gym I only care about their BJJ record. If I go to a MMA gym I care about their MMA record. If I go to a boxing gym I care guess what about their boxing record.
    If the BJJ gym claims it can get me ready for a MMA match then I expect that school to have pressure tested said claims in an MMA environment.
    I will take nearly any Martial sport to be sufficient for Self Defense as long as the school that is teaching it can at the very least perform well in their given sport.
    he leap from sport to self defense is actually very small.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    have never actually participated in an MMA event. Have you ever actually practiced your art against someone actively trying to punch you in the face etc? If not, then by your own standards, have you pressure tested it?
    Here is the thing, I make no claims to be an MMA fighter. I Don't claim that I can win a MMA fight. I know the limitations of what I train. I know to what level I have actually pressure tested it. I know how well I deal with the chemical cocktail that explodes in ones brain when they compete. I know how much I suck. I am not concerned with self defense. Its not one of the reasons I train.
    Also I have done striking. **** mall Karate and some Boxing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    (for the record I have, so there),
    Bullshit


    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    You can a beginners class (the biggest), which consisted mostly of pad/bag work, conditioning, and footwork. You then had a 'level 2' class. That was much the same, but ramped up, and involved working the clinch.
    Lets get to the meat of this right now. At those 2 levels would you say that they had been "pressure tested" would you say that they are ready for a fight?
    I am going to assume no. What they are doing is working themselves up to being able to spar. I am not saying a day on newbie should start of sparring. However the act of sparring is integral part of the art of MT. You can't progress in MT without sparring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    In level 3 (which was always by invitation only) you could start sparing. Some people weren't invited. Some people chose not to do it. Some people tried it and went back to the other classes. Or did isolation sparring, but not knockdown. I can't fault them. They had lives, families, jobs, and they couldn't show up banged up all the time.
    If your just kicking pads your not learning MT.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    I have to shoot that back at you. Aliveness without a doubt includes sparring as yet another way of controlled combative interaction. But let's not forget what the concept was really meant to be about. It was not meant to be equated to fully balls-to-the-walls knockdown sparring.
    Never claimed it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    But, just like in any gym I have been to (and apparently your experience is different here), not everyone ramps it all the way up to sparring.
    Its pretty damn hard to develop a sense of timing and distance without actually sparring meaning that your really lacking the aliveness department without it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Are we talking about pressure testing or fully pressure testing. How, for example, do BJJer's pressure test BJJ without engaging in vale tudo matches every practice?
    You seem really confused about the difference between practicing and testing.
    Practicing is about learning. Testing is about proving.
    If you want to prove your **** works in a vale tudo setting you must pressure test it in that setting.
    You don't however have to do a vale tudo match everyday to practice it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Let me clear, this doesn't mean it is non-contact, or not alive. Just that, some people certain to occupy a particular place on the aliveness spectrum.
    Your going to have to be clearer how you can have contact with aliveness without sparing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    It seems to me that you have taken that clip totally out of context and spun a whole narrative about it, as though it was ever meant to show the CMD practiced there
    . It was not. Shame on you for misrepresenting it as such without due diligence. Very similar to way you attempted just now to slander me, by calling me a liar.
    Hey liar, I did no such thing. I did not claim the video was CMD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    I don't post here very often these days, but I do read it often. I used to really respect the way this site was run. It was full of intelligent people trying to fight b.s. in martial arts. How are people like yourself getting away with your schtick here?
    I stay out of the serious areas of the website. Maybe you didn't read where this was posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    I don't know what your infatuation is with Swift Kicks.
    Infatuation? Not at all, I am familiar with them and how shitty they are so when they popped up on the CMD search I pointed it out as a POSSIBLE quality control issue with CMD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    You seem to have some strange vendetta against them.
    Not really I have made comments about them in this thread and maybe one other thread that was about them. Hardly call that a vendetta. They are a shitty school. They came up in this thread because they teach CMD. Its pretty much as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    They have a family based program.
    So do a lot of gyms I respect. You seem to be missing the point. Swift Kicks sucks, not because they have a family program but because they are a major McDojo that teaches crappy martial arts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    I don't think I could. I never suggested I could. The trainer's program isn't a correspondence course.
    Sure the hell sounds like one to me by both your description and theirs
  3. Milk_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2014 5:58am


     Style: Aikido, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    *Grab popcorn* hmmm....fight!
  4. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2014 3:04am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In all fairness I am being a bit too hard on Swift Kick. As Strip Mall McDojos go you could certainly do a hell of a lot worse. For their prices in San Diego area you certainly can do a hell of a lot better I and I do mean a HELL of a lot better. However that being said they are being unfairly shitted upon by me in order to irk other people and that is not fair to them.
  5. Milk_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2014 3:15am


     Style: Aikido, Muay Thai

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    In all fairness I am being a bit too hard on Swift Kick. As Strip Mall McDojos go you could certainly do a hell of a lot worse. For their prices in San Diego area you certainly can do a hell of a lot better I and I do mean a HELL of a lot better. However that being said they are being unfairly shitted upon by me in order to irk other people and that is not fair to them.
    No! Go back to being an ass to Tacticus, I still have popcorn left in the bowl!
  6. Tacitus is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2014 3:49am

    supporting member
     Style: Crazy Monkey, BJJ, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Milk, you'll have to put the popcorn away.

    I just noticed that the posts by Nathan Wagar and Sam Kressin were inserted into this thread. Which is odd, because they definitely were not there before. Yet its says they were posted in December. I have the screen shots to prove they weren't there (I tend to screen shot all the posts I make these days, never know when they will be deleted/edited by mods). It's good that someone at bullshido, a site that bills itself as no b.s. and exposing the truth, decided to not censor these posts and actually put them up there. Even if, for some strange reason, it took six months.

    Anyway, Nathan and Sam have way more experience than I do, and I would really suggest that, for anyone reading this thread, go read over what they say. Keep in mind they are a much better source on CMD than me. If someone is really interested in 'opinions' (plural, not just one anonymous forum member with absolutely zero personal experience) on Crazy Monkey Defense, they should consider the posts by those two. I think an intelligent reader can make up their own mind.

    As to the rest of this 'debate', regarding pressure testing etc., I bow out. Believe it or not, I'm meeting up with some folks tomorrow to spar. I assume goodlum will be here though, saying something about this very comment instead.
    As I say, I don't think it's hard to see who in this thread has enough actual first (or even second!) hand information to make an informed opinion on Crazy Monkey Defense.
    Last edited by Tacitus; 5/10/2014 3:54am at .
  7. Milk_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2014 3:54am


     Style: Aikido, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But...it's buttered popcorn...have you no heart?
  8. Mackan is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2014 4:10am


     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So...

    Has anyone here ever rolled with a MonkeyJits practitioner?

    Being blind, I can't really judge any footage of it. I kinda like the whole "anyone can participate" angle, also because I'm blind. However, am I the only one who sort of red flags the "we don't train to compete" and "our belts are for within our own organisation" and such?
  9. Milk_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2014 4:15am


     Style: Aikido, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mackan View Post
    So...

    Has anyone here ever rolled with a MonkeyJits practitioner?

    Being blind, I can't really judge any footage of it. I kinda like the whole "anyone can participate" angle, also because I'm blind. However, am I the only one who sort of red flags the "we don't train to compete" and "our belts are for within our own organisation" and such?
    How do you type and read if you're blind?
  10. Mackan is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2014 4:44am


     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Milk_ View Post
    How do you type and read if you're blind?
    I have a screen reader, called JAWS, and a "braille display" (I don't know if they are called that in english, but... A device that shows text in braille.)
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