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  1. timothius is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2013 5:26pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Just cannot do turning in throws in Judo

    Hi All.

    I'm really struggling to do turning in throws in Randori / Shia. Throws like sieo-nage I just cannot do. This is for two reasons:

    1) Fear: It is intimidating to commit, especially when you keep getting countered.

    2) Lack of kuzushi. I find it really hard to unbalance my partner and get a good pull.

    My forward facing throws have got better and I am beginning to use a couple of combinations which seem to be working well. (For instance sieo-nage into ko-uchi gake).

    I try to practice good turning in throws in uchi comi, and that has been getting easier.

    It is just in Randori that I never do them, for the above reasons. I also often fight bigger people, which makes it harder if I'm not fully committed.

    I CAN do drop throws and have thrown larger people with that. I've just stopped doing them as I think they are destroying my standing throws (kept flopping by habit) and I want me knees to work.

    I'm 68kg, and short. Most of my partners are in the 80's.

    Any advice as to what I should do?

    Thanks!

    (I'm a green belt, so still somewhat novice).
  2. Nickosaurus is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2013 5:54pm


     Style: Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I put the link below not as an encouragement to any particular throw but more because it make the point that you should be doing your Judo as much as you can. If you get countered then fine nothing is won and lost in Randori.

  3. Lindz is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2013 6:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    try talking to your sensei. people shouldn't be countering you,all the time, even if theu can
  4. CrackFox is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/06/2013 4:56am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While I fully agree with Matt D'Aquino's video, I've also got to add that there is nothing inherently better about turning throws over techniques where you stay facing your opponent. Being able to do them just gives you more options. So don't stress too much if you can't do them and become obsessed.

    I don't turn that much. I can do it (kind of), but it's not my style. For years though, I just couldn't do it, and I used to get very pissed off because I got it into my head that somehow turning around and throwing someone over your back was a *real* throw and clipping their leg out from under them was not as cool.

    Once I got over this way of thinking, I started having a lot more fun at training. Sure you'll have to go through a period of trying and failing for the turning throws, because you do need them, but don't sweat it if that just isn't your style.

    One thing you could work on, if you already have a good non turning technique is to always, always, always follow up any failed attempts at it with puling them up onto their toes and turning in for a follow up throw. Don't measure your progress in randori by how often you throw or get thrown, but by how often did you get them to come up on their toes after a failed attack and how often did you go for that follow up attack. Doesn't matter if the attack fails or gets countered.

    EDIT: By the way, I don't mean throwing 1-2 combos, where you think I'm going to do a ko-soto and then when he dodges that I'll seoi-nage him . I mean do the throw as usual, don't really think about what you're going to do after, but if you find you've failed the throw go straight into a balance break in the opposite direction before he fully recovers.
    Last edited by CrackFox; 12/06/2013 5:11am at .
  5. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/07/2013 7:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I, too, have had trouble with turning throws in my judo. My working hypothesis is that the contributing factors are coming to judo as an adult (with the attendant reduced commitment to counterable throws), insufficiently mobile/strong shoulers (which makes it difficult to apply a proper pull or drive), and a surfeit of uchikomi over nagekomi (I think that the latter is superior for developing commitment to throws).

    Don't fret: as a green belt, you have a lot of development to go with where your best throws come from. I was well into brown belt before I discovered several of my most reliable techniques.

    I recommend a strength and mobility program for your shoulders (daily Hindu push-ups and yoga, two or three sets each of pull-ups and dips several times a week) and more nagekomi or throw-for-throw practice if possible.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  6. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/07/2013 2:49pm

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     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wasn't hugely happy about any nage-waza that--even briefly--offered my back to my opponent. Nevertheless, I learned (at my usual idiot's pace) that proper momentum and timing can help minimize any adversary's opportunity to capitalize on this.

    The kind of footwork and relative positioning that gives you that momentum and timing only comes with proper and repeated practice...and the kind of courage that allows you to take yourself out of your habitual comfort zone.

    As mentioned by others, part of the solution is intelligent training partners who understand that the purpose of randori is that both participants grow in confidence and ability.

    That said, I still prefer face-to-face nage-waza such as osoto. But maybe that's just me.
  7. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 3:29am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by timothius View Post
    Hi All.

    I'm really struggling to do turning in throws in Randori / Shia. Throws like sieo-nage I just cannot do. This is for two reasons:

    1) Fear: It is intimidating to commit, especially when you keep getting countered.

    2) Lack of kuzushi. I find it really hard to unbalance my partner and get a good pull.

    My forward facing throws have got better and I am beginning to use a couple of combinations which seem to be working well. (For instance sieo-nage into ko-uchi gake).

    I try to practice good turning in throws in uchi comi, and that has been getting easier.

    It is just in Randori that I never do them, for the above reasons. I also often fight bigger people, which makes it harder if I'm not fully committed.

    I CAN do drop throws and have thrown larger people with that. I've just stopped doing them as I think they are destroying my standing throws (kept flopping by habit) and I want me knees to work.

    I'm 68kg, and short. Most of my partners are in the 80's.

    Any advice as to what I should do?

    Thanks!

    (I'm a green belt, so still somewhat novice).
    Honestly, you are aren't going to be good any every Judo throw. Other than the occasional Drop Seio Nage I rarely ever go for turning in throws during Randori. If your thing is foot sweeps and you are good at it work on that. Be able to set them up from everywhere and be able to transition from counters. Remember top Judo-ka have only 2-3 main throws they use for competition. I remember my instructor's instructor saying if a student wanted to add a throw to his competition arsenal he was tell them to drill it 1000x and then they would discuss it.
    Last edited by Plasma; 12/08/2013 3:33am at .
  8. timothius is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 1:57pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for all the advice (and the motivation ;).

    I'll have a chat with my training partners and ask them not to dump me on my head if I go for a forward throw!

    I'll keep working on it and see how it goes. Just want at least one decent forward throw in my inventory.

    Not sure what throw I should be working on. I quite like morote type throws, but I find it hard to get my arm around if they have a stiff Judogi on.

    I found dropping to my knees makes them ache, even if I'm careful with how I drop. I have weak knees.

    Should I be trying to do the throws traditionally at first? I find a lapel pull a bit easier, but I use a standard right handed sleeve lapel grip, so I can't do a right handed throw that way.

    At the moment I'm just trying to attack in randori as much as possible and go for combinations. Seen a definite improvement with my judo by not being passive and just going for things. Also seen a definite increase in general bruises, scratches and swollen finger joints to myself as well!
  9. Vorpal is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 2:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't drop to your knees. Learn how to flex your feet so that you can drop to your shins.
  10. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 3:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by timothius View Post
    I'll have a chat with my training partners and ask them not to dump me on my head if I go for a forward throw!
    I feel it's important to tell you that if a green belt told me this I would laugh and do whatever I was going to do anyway. Generally that means letting the green belt attempt forward throws with quite a bit of leeway. But randori is stll randori.

    Quote Originally Posted by timothius View Post
    I found dropping to my knees makes them ache, even if I'm careful with how I drop. I have weak knees.
    Unless you have some sort of ligament or cartilage damage, the latter of which would have to be significant, I recommend strengthening your knees with a progressive resistance training program such as heavy barbell squats.

    For the rest of your questions, I don't think it's possible to give advice without having seen or felt you in randori.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
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