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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Learning online. Can it be done? Are they any good teachers?

    Hello, I've just gotten back into martial arts after a long period. I've just started going on a daily basis pretty much at the local martial arts gym. However, I get home and some times after the lesson if I'm not completely dead or if I have a spare hour, I like to do a little technique work in the house. Trying to work on it so I can fetch it back into the gym and work on it some more... Almost like homework only with more face(bag) kicking.

    So I'm wondering, is there any actual good videos online that will teach you some good drills and technique work? Recently I've been checking out the Ginger Ninja Fellow (as seen below) though I'm not sure if I'm skilled enough to judge whether what he's doing is really good or if he's Bullshit or what.




    I've also looked into Fight Tips but I've heard dubious things in the past and Kwonkicker. I may be beating a dead horse here or possibly even resurrecting one but with the site being a little quiet recently I thought I'd try and see what I can drum up and really it's a topic I'm quite interested in. I've known there to be some really poor as **** teachers on youtube (THomas Daw) but are there any good ones, worth watching...

  2. #2
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure you can get yourself into great shape.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFFz...zJ66m5uhDk8JVK







    What you are not going to learn online is any sort of COMBAT skills, including combative sport skills.
    Those require a partner.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Sure you can get yourself into great shape.

    What you are not going to learn online is any sort of COMBAT skills, including combative sport skills.
    Those require a partner.
    I wouldn't think you could learn to fight online... I honestly don't think you can learn how to correctly fight without any form of sparring or pressure testing. However, learning new techniques or ideas for combinations to work on the bag or fetch to the gym with you for sparring. Would you think that would be possible from youtube videos?

    I'm not deluded enough to believe that you can become a fighter or even any good at martial arts from purely watching youtube videos, without a teacher there to correct your form and other students to train with and force you to use those techniques while under pressure, it's going to fail. However, could the correct online teacher help in giving new ideas for techniques or combinations?

  4. #4
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sovvolf View Post
    However, learning new techniques or ideas for combinations to work on the bag or fetch to the gym with you for sparring. Would you think that would be possible from youtube videos?
    Not worth your time or effort, it would be much better spent becoming incredibly fit.

    Think about this what good is a technique or combination learnt in a vacuum without all the context you get by sparring.
    There are only so many ways to throw a punch, boxing isn't learning how to throw a punch that is day one ****.
    Boxing is learning when to throw that punch.

    This mentality can be extended to kicking, clinching, and grappling.

    I could drill an armbar on a dummy a 1000 times every day, and sure I will understand the technique, or more precisely how that technique works on a dummy.
    I would still be missing all of the little **** that happens when another human is on the other end, the way they shift their hips, the way they block, the way fight back.
    Being able to do a spinning armbar against a static opponent doesn't really prepare you for a dynamic one.
    I would say in my example doing a 1000 turkish get ups would better prepare you for a match than a 1000 arm bars against a static dummy.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  5. #5
    NeilG's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you already have a decent base in what you are studying, then videos and books can be a helpful tool.

  6. #6

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    I'm not for one second thinking that sparring isn't probably the most important part of martial arts training. I'm not saying you could replace any of this training with online videos however... Lets go back to your example with the arm bar. You've drilled it on your dummy 1000 times every day, you have a grasp on how that technique works. Now you take it into sparring and you try applying it on a human, the fellows not going to be compliant, he's not just going to let you perform it on him so yeah, you're going to adjust yourself and adjust the technique you've just learned while you're sparring in order to actually get it to work but you do know the technique and at least the basic principles behind it.

    Is this really all that different from how we learn at the gym. I mean when I learn a technique off of my instructor, a jab for example, we hit a pad, the air or a bag. We drill it until we have a good grasp of how it works, why it works and all the other basic mechanics of it. However you don't learn how to actually use it until you actually spar with it and you have the pressure of someone trying to hit you or being non-compliant.

    Now what I'm saying is, see the second video down in my OP. The basic combinations, would it not be worth the time practicing it at home, against the air and against the bag... Then when I go back to the gym and it comes to the time for sparring, wouldn't I still be able to attempt to apply the base principle of the techniques or combinations against the sparring partner, with a few adjustments for having a live opponent. Have I still not learned something useful to take with me and adjust it to fit in the gym?

  7. #7
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From my experience, you can definitely get ideas from online video instruction and put them to good application --- after live practice, and with the caveat that not all techniques work equally for all people. Identify the gross movements you want to emulate, drill them for/by yourself, and then try them next time you're at the gym.

    Over the years, I've seen instructors go from "don't watch youtube, just do what I tell you," to "I want you to watch youtube, find new techniques, and experiment with them." This speaks volumes about what you can learn from supplemental instruction, such as books and videos.

    Even better than instructional videos, look at real fights. Pick up ideas that are combat-proven from those practitioners' execution.

    As far as drilling at home, alone, I think your best bet is to concentrate on proper execution of fundamental movements, not stringing together predetermined combos. Yes, you should be able to put together a combo, but that combo will have to be specific to your opponent when you use it. Shadowboxing, maybe?

  8. #8
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sovvolf View Post
    I'm not for one second thinking that sparring isn't probably the most important part of martial arts training. I'm not saying you could replace any of this training with online videos however... Lets go back to your example with the arm bar. You've drilled it on your dummy 1000 times every day, you have a grasp on how that technique works.
    What I am saying is you don't actually grasp how it works, you grasp how to manipulate a dead arm using a dead pattern.
    You wouldn't have learned anything more than doing it 20 times with an alive partner.
    Lets put it this way:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns
    Once you get the part you need to get, you get it.
    Knowing the body movements for the arm bar doesn't take 1000 times doing it.
    Its not those movements that make it work.
    You can do 2+2 over and over and over again and over again.
    But doing so isn't making you any better at math.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sovvolf View Post
    Now you take it into sparring and you try applying it on a human, the fellows not going to be compliant, he's not just going to let you perform it on him so yeah, you're going to adjust yourself and adjust the technique you've just learned while you're sparring in order to actually get it to work but you do know the technique and at least the basic principles behind it.
    What your missing is the technique to hit a bag and a person are actually different fundamentally.
    hitting the bag your learning 2+2.
    Sparring your learning, the number line, and how to jump right and left on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sovvolf View Post
    Is this really all that different from how we learn at the gym. I mean when I learn a technique off of my instructor, a jab for example, we hit a pad, the air or a bag. We drill it until we have a good grasp of how it works, why it works and all the other basic mechanics of it. However you don't learn how to actually use it until you actually spar with it and you have the pressure of someone trying to hit you or being non-compliant.
    It is very different, at the gym you get feed back from other people. Hitting pads is still dynamic people are still involved.

    Seriously there is nothing to fucking "grasp" you don't need a Theory of Punching 101 class.

    It takes 15 mins to teach someone how to hit a fucking bag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sovvolf View Post
    Now what I'm saying is, see the second video down in my OP. The basic combinations, would it not be worth the time practicing it at home, against the air and against the bag... Then when I go back to the gym and it comes to the time for sparring, wouldn't I still be able to attempt to apply the base principle of the techniques or combinations against the sparring partner, with a few adjustments for having a live opponent. Have I still not learned something useful to take with me and adjust it to fit in the gym?
    [/QUOTE]

    and what I am saying is the time you would spend on that would be better served doing this


    You keep making the mistake thinking that the their is depth to hitting a bag or throwing combinations.
    That you can get incite into this depth by hitting a bag.
    Its not a total waste, hitting a bag is good cardio but if you think its getting you any further than that your fooling yourself.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  9. #9
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Over the years, I've seen instructors go from "don't watch youtube, just do what I tell you," to "I want you to watch youtube, find new techniques, and experiment with them." This speaks volumes about what you can learn from supplemental instruction, such as books and videos.
    Because these things make for great supplemental learning. Thing is you still need to come in and practice with someone in an alive manner fairly shortly after watching said video.
    For example one couldn't say watch
    All of Roy Deans stuff than show up to a gym and expect to have really picked anything up.

    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Even better than instructional videos, look at real fights. Pick up ideas that are combat-proven from those practitioners' execution.
    This is very true, and one of the reasons I encourage beginners to watch matches instead of tech videos.

    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    As far as drilling at home, alone, I think your best bet is to concentrate on proper execution of fundamental movements, not stringing together predetermined combos. Yes, you should be able to put together a combo, but that combo will have to be specific to your opponent when you use it. Shadowboxing, maybe?
    I would say one should learn the fundamental movements in person first and get them down enough that they can be trusted to do them on their own.
    Imperfect practice is not good for you.
    Take the shrimp for example.
    You can shrimp up and down your hall all day long, and that would be great if your shrimping right.
    But lets say you where not, say you where shrimping some stupid ass way, one that allowed you to move up and down the hall but one that wouldn't let you do what a shrimp does while rolling.
    You just practiced being wrong.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  10. #10
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One more thing, you will be better when you finally do get around going to a real gym being Fit, than knowing how to hit a bag.
    If your actually fit, you will have more time, energy, and focus, to spend on learning the stuff at the gym.
    Be in a much better position than being like oh well I already know how to punch.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

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