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  1. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 11:57am


     Style: Seidokaikan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    no, what i am talking about is that people who fail are too ashamed to come back and try again.

    that is cultural, and it's expected behavior, which thins out the student body, and leaves more dedicated students.

    i think it's neither right nor wrong to run a dojo that way. it's not what i would do, but it's not my dojo. you seemed to think it was cruel, and i think you just don't get what the dojo culture is like over there and are being judgmental.
    People who failed colored belt tests tended to try again. People who failed black belt tests did not. I knew one guy who had a fairly successful MMA career including one fight with a Gracie who failed the black belt test and never came back. I'm not going to post his name because I wouldn't want this thread to pop up if somebody googled him, but I namedropped him in my first thread about the school if you really care.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 12:21pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGalt View Post
    People who failed colored belt tests tended to try again. People who failed black belt tests did not. I knew one guy who had a fairly successful MMA career including one fight with a Gracie who failed the black belt test and never came back. I'm not going to post his name because I wouldn't want this thread to pop up if somebody googled him, but I namedropped him in my first thread about the school if you really care.
    You could just give us a link you know.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 12:30pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    It's really interesting that a club where students are told to wait to test is also a club where so many students fail the tests. I've never seen a situation like that before here in the states, in any martial art.
    See and that's why many people, outside of the states, accuse us of creating the McDojo system. I've seen MANY tests where people should have failed and didn't. I watched one where they walked the student through the test and passed him based on "nervousness."

    If an adult test when they aren't ready, I'll fail them. So, it doesn't surprise me that a large dojo has a 50% failure rate. If I think of all of the reasons I saw for people testing, I'm surprised more people don't fail.

    What you call "being judgmental" I call having an opinion. You seem to think that someone who has never directly experienced a culture is not allowed to have opinions about anything that goes on in that culture, and I think that's ridiculous.
    Please tell me you see the irony in this statement.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 12/08/2013 12:35pm at .
  4. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 1:06pm

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGalt View Post
    People who failed colored belt tests tended to try again. People who failed black belt tests did not. I knew one guy who had a fairly successful MMA career including one fight with a Gracie who failed the black belt test and never came back. I'm not going to post his name because I wouldn't want this thread to pop up if somebody googled him, but I namedropped him in my first thread about the school if you really care.
    it doesn't surprise me at all, but then i've been to japan quite a bit and trained in traditional dojos. there's a lot more loss of face in failing a black belt test than a color belt test.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 1:11pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've known some schools that say "You will fail your blackbelt test the first time."

    I don't agree as it's quite anti climatic.

    Instead I use pre-qualifier test 1 year before hand.
  6. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 3:39pm


     Style: Seidokaikan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    You could just give us a link you know.
    I suppose I could. I'm just lazy.

    Anyway, I don't know where he went after his black belt test. Somebody told me that they put him up against this really big English black belt in the sparring portion of the test and he got knocked down a lot. Then I got kind of a sho ga nai shrug and that was the end of the story.
  7. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 3:43pm


     Style: Seidokaikan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    I've known some schools that say "You will fail your blackbelt test the first time."

    I don't agree as it's quite anti climatic.

    Instead I use pre-qualifier test 1 year before hand.
    I had a Ke?po teacher who gave a ridiculously hard hazing-style black belt test and one of his students had some kind of heart irregularity, like a murmur or something. He'd start the test, get a couple of hours in, and pass out while running barefoot laps around the gravel parking lot or something. When he got back up he'd be informed he had failed and could try again in six months. He somehow eventually passed and became one of the school's instructors, but it seemed a little silly. He was technically proficient, a strong competitor in tournaments, a good teacher, and kept getting failed for inability to perform tasks that weren't strongly related to the subject at hand.
  8. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 4:00pm

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     Style: 血鷲

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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    What you call "being judgmental" I call having an opinion.
    Upon what, exactly, is this opinion based? Been there, have you?

    You seem to think that someone who has never directly experienced a culture is not allowed to have opinions about anything that goes on in that culture, and I think that's ridiculous.
    How would you know "what's going on" in that culture? Hearsay? The pithy pronouncements of pencil-necked japanophilic westerners whose 'knowledge' comes from books, websites or brief package tours?

    Do not misunderstand: you are, of course, more than welcome to spew any baseless opinion you like. It's your time to waste; however, be sure you don't mistake it for anything other than wasted time and bandwidth.
  9. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2013 9:36pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    it doesn't surprise me at all, but then i've been to japan quite a bit and trained in traditional dojos. there's a lot more loss of face in failing a black belt test than a color belt test.
    Depends on the culture I guess. It's pretty tough to fail shodan for kendo in Japan but by the time you get to godan the pass rate is around 20% and keeps dropping each dan after until you hit the 1% pass rate at hachidan. People are impressed if you pass first time. People who fail just keep coming back year after year to try again.
  10. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/09/2013 12:13am

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Depends on the culture I guess. It's pretty tough to fail shodan for kendo in Japan but by the time you get to godan the pass rate is around 20% and keeps dropping each dan after until you hit the 1% pass rate at hachidan. People are impressed if you pass first time. People who fail just keep coming back year after year to try again.
    i think it depends on the art and dojo quite a bit, i wasn't saying that it was like that in every dojo, just that i could see it being normal, based on some of my experiences there.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
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