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  1. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/11/2013 10:43pm

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     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Double penetration?

    In the first segment of this video, Hanshi Tony Annesi demonstrates a technique he calls double penetration. Essentially, he strikes so that his fist rotates a half turn before impact, and completes the rotation after impact.



    Does this make sense or is this Bullshido? Full rotation adds to the force of a punch, but it seems like the full rotation would have to happen at the time of impact rather than half before impact and half after. Also, wouldn't this require that you leave your arm sticking out there for a little too much time?
  2. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/12/2013 9:07am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The post title should have been something else, talk about an anti climax
    Any-who..it seems bullshit, you are not supposed to shove your opponent when punching. You can see from the dorky shitty punching bags they have that this is a classical BS dojo.
  3. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2013 9:14am

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    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    The post title should have been something else, talk about an anti climax
    Any-who..it seems bullshit, you are not supposed to shove your opponent when punching. You can see from the dorky shitty punching bags they have that this is a classical BS dojo.
    The title was so I could get everyone's attention.

    The only way I can make any sense of this is that he is advocating that we focus well inside the target's body, and complete the rotation then, rather than upon making surface impact. If so, this looks like a strange way to demonstrate a sound principle because it does look like he is using a punch to push someone.
  4. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/12/2013 9:22am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I figured as much, though people will get in the thread, see nothing resembling what they hope and leave.
    I'll ask you this, who in the MA world punches the best? who has the strongest most efficient punch?
  5. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2013 9:43am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's a tough question, on which I'm sure a lot of people would differ. In part because strongest punch could be taken to mean either most psi's or most KO's.

    I don't know the real answer, but based on reputation alone my answer would be Mike Tyson. For former fighters, I'd say George Foreman. In MMA? Hell, I REALLY don't know -- Silva?
  6. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/12/2013 10:38am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

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    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    That's a tough question, on which I'm sure a lot of people would differ. In part because strongest punch could be taken to mean either most psi's or most KO's.

    I don't know the real answer, but based on reputation alone my answer would be Mike Tyson. For former fighters, I'd say George Foreman. In MMA? Hell, I REALLY don't know -- Silva?
    I'm sorry i meant which Martial Art has the strongest punch..well arguably it is boxing. Which makes sense since they produce a multitude of millionaires that earn all that money by punching very hard. So my point will be, why try and break down his technique if there are better ones out there.
    Also if you rotate while hitting the target, you would not hit said target with your fingers pointing down, which leaves you open, or more open for a counter. The rotation you see in boxing, is not only designed so the knuckles hit, but also so the shoulder rises up more to cover your jaw.. I think you should not over think what technique generated the most power, but rather which technique renders you safest while doing it. Usually a fight won't be determined by a 1 punch ko...its a flurry of punches from both sides, the one that covers better has a higher chance to drop his opponent and keep standing.
  7. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2013 12:02pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    I'm sorry i meant which Martial Art has the strongest punch..well arguably it is boxing. Which makes sense since they produce a multitude of millionaires that earn all that money by punching very hard. So my point will be, why try and break down his technique if there are better ones out there.
    Also if you rotate while hitting the target, you would not hit said target with your fingers pointing down, which leaves you open, or more open for a counter. The rotation you see in boxing, is not only designed so the knuckles hit, but also so the shoulder rises up more to cover your jaw.. I think you should not over think what technique generated the most power, but rather which technique renders you safest while doing it. Usually a fight won't be determined by a 1 punch ko...its a flurry of punches from both sides, the one that covers better has a higher chance to drop his opponent and keep standing.
    I named boxers because I figure that if you train punching exclusively, you should get stronger punches than if you split your time training punching, kicking, throwing, etc., and also because Iron Mike is said to throw a strong one.

    But its hard to compare punching power among different arts, unless you look only at psi, and find some way to account for differences in the size and age of the fighters. The straight punch you describe may have the best overall risk/benefit combination, but the conventional MA wisdom I've always heard is that a straight punch should be thrown with shoulders down for max power.

    I'm not really sure which art has the strongest punch, tho we can probably agree that its not the Chun.
  8. Permalost is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2013 12:26pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I correctly guessed this was going to be a karate reverse punch thing, but I figured it'd be a double hip action vid, not this double hit corkscrew punch thing. To me, it seems better to dump as much energy as possible on the hit, as you load up your other hand to follow up. This seems like it'd muddle up the dumping and the loading.

    I like his breakdown of some other elements.
  9. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    11/12/2013 1:34pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was shown this method of punching in karate. It's stupid.

    When I questioned my instructor he would tell me no, no, no........it's not a push. Yes it fucking is. It's an underpowered punch followed by a push.

    The reason I say it's an underpowered punch is because it's impossible to strike like this at full power and have two distinct impacts. It's fucking impossible. When you strike with full power and speed there is one impact. Your hand is moving too fast and with too much force for there to be two impacts.

    The only way this can happen is if your punch is too slow and too weak. Then you follow it with a twisting push. That's it. It's dumb.
  10. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2013 1:50pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I was shown this method of punching in karate. It's stupid.

    When I questioned my instructor he would tell me no, no, no........it's not a push. Yes it fucking is. It's an underpowered punch followed by a push.

    The reason I say it's an underpowered punch is because it's impossible to strike like this at full power and have two distinct impacts. It's fucking impossible. When you strike with full power and speed there is one impact. Your hand is moving too fast and with too much force for there to be two impacts.

    The only way this can happen is if your punch is too slow and too weak. Then you follow it with a twisting push. That's it. It's dumb.

    Did your teacher actually say that there were two distinct impacts involved? If so, I agree that this is a ridiculous way to punch. One the other hand, if the idea is just to promote deeper penetration and its meant to be one impact, then its a good idea demonstrated in a bad way.

    This reminds me of something I've seen people try to do on a heavy bag, where they strike with a punch and then continue moving in the same motion with a forearm/elbow strike. Looks good on paper, but the forearm strike ends up weak and overextended because your feet are in the wrong range and there's little hip/shoulder rotation behind it.
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